Chatsworth Train Accident
August 10, 1887
TESTIMONY.
Peoria, Illinois, August 18, 1887...continued.
Mr. McKinney, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker,
and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. William McKinney.
Q. What is your age? A. 20.
Q. What is your business? A. Hardware merchant.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. A little over 20 years.
Q. You are familiar with the track between here and Chatsworth? A. Somewhat.
Q. Did you ever walk it? A. No, sir.
Q. You were here on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Here that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was your attention attracted to any fire that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. At about a quarter of 10.
Q. In what direction was it? A. West.
Q. How far did it seem to be? A. I didn't give it any thought.
Q. What was the character of the light? A. It was just a kind of a—I supposed it
was a head-light.
Q. Was it cloudy? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there a blaze? A. No. sir.
Q. Strong or feeble light? A. Feeble.
Q. What did you say you thought it was at the time? A. I supposed it was a train
coming. It was about the time the train was due.
Q. Did you say anything to anybody about it? A. There was a friend with me, and
I spoke about it.
Q. Where were you at the time? A. At the crossing West of the depot.
Q. How far was that from the depot platform? A. Probably five or six rods.
Q. That was what took place between you and your friend—did you go to the depot?
A. No, sir, not then.
Q. Did you see the light after you left the track? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you look any more? A. No, sir, I went West and there were some cars in
the way.
Q. If there had been no cars there, could you have seen the light? A. I don't
know.
Q. Was there such a quantity of light as to attract attention? A. There was just
a feeble light.
Q. Were you at the depot before the accident happened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything more of the light? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time were you there? A. About half past to o'clock.
Q. Did you see the light when you first went back? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what point? A. The edge of the platform.
Q. Could you only see it from the edge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you think it was then? A. I thought probably it was a fire then. I
heard some one remark it was a fire.
Q. Had it changed its appearance? A. Just about the same thing.
Q. How long did you stay at the depot? A. Until the engine came up.
Q. Was the agent's attention called to that light that you know of? A. I saw him
come out and look down the track.
Q. Did you observe what anybody said to him about the light? A. No, sir.
Q. Did that engine have a head-light when it got there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sure of that? A. Yes sir; we could see it down to the wreck.
Q. Just before that head-light came in view did you see this same light? Were
you giving attention to the subject then? A. No, sir.
Q. Alter the engine came did you look to see the light any more? A. Not until we
started down.
Q. You think you saw the head-light a half an hour before it got to Piper City?
A. Yes, sir, I think we did.
Q. That was the head-light proper? A. Yes, sir; the agent came out and said it
was the train, arid then he came out again and said it must be stuck.
Q. That was a clear light? A. It was a strong light.
Q. There was nothing to hinder you from seeing it? A. Nothing.
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On the train? A. On the hand car.
Q. Did you observe any fire between here and there? A. I noticed some pieces in
the ditch.
Q. Tell us whether any of the ties upon which the rails were fastened were on
fire. A. I didn't notice.
Q. They were on the side of the track? A. Yes, sir, out in the ditch.
Q. You went immediately to the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to the bridge when you first got there? A. I saw the bridge was on
fire.
Q. Did you go West of the bridge? A. I did not.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Until about half past 4.
Q. Did you hear of any robbing going on there? A. No, sir.
Q. Robbing their pockets? A. No, sir.
Q. Why did you leave at that time? A. I was wet through and I didn't think I
could do any more, and I walked down and changed my clothes.
Q. Did you observe what care was given to the wounded if any? A. Everybody was
doing all they could.
Q. If a man had been on an engine going from here to Chatsworth he could have
seen the light you mention all the way? A. I suppose so.
Q. Was there anything to hinder him coming this way? A. I don't know.
Q. You first saw the fire about a quarter of 10? A. I think about that time.
Q. You called the agent's attention to this fire? A. No, sir, I did not.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. I believe you said you saw the engine between here and
Chatsworth after it left Chatsworth? A. I think it was at the wreck.
Q. Can you see an engine on a dark night pretty near any place between here and
Chatsworth? A. Really, I don't know.
Q. You never looked? A. I have looked, but they have been raising the track
since.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Did you ever have any experience on a locomotive? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Have you ever worked on a railroad? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what capacity? A. Brakeman.
Q. How long? A. Between 5 and 6 years.
Q. Where? A. Part of the time on the C. & A. and on the C. & R. I., and the T.,
P. & W.
Q. Do you know how it is with respect to seeing objects on a railroad track at
night if the head-light is burning? A. That depends on the distance from the
engine.
Q. How far in advance can you see a light, that is upon the railroad track, in
the range of the head-light? A. My recollection is that the range of the
head-light extends perhaps 15 car lengths.
Q. What effect would it have upon your ability to see a light upon the railroad
track? A. If the light was of such a character as to be reflected on a cloudy
evening, I think you could see that reflection without regard to the head-light.
I should think you could until the range of the head-light strikes the fire, and
then it dims it.
Q. In feet, how much is 15 car lengths? A. Taking 30 feet as the average car
length, it would be 450 feet.
Q. After it comes within the range of the head-light, you wouldn't observe it so
readily? A. No, sir.
Q. What would you say about seeing the reflection of this light from Chatsworth?
A. I think it could not be seen from that side, as well as from this one.
Q. Why? Because the highest elevation is on that side.
Q. What would hinder you from seeing it? A. I think the highest point is near
the bridge.
Q. When the head-light reaches beyond the fire, you think it would be difficult
to observe? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Isn't there a great difference between a red light that is in
full view, and the reflection of a blaze that is entirely out of sight? A. I
should think so.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. You think you could see a flame better than a reflection? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You don't know exactly where this rise to the bridge is located? A. It has
been several years since I run on the road, and I have forgotten a great
many land marks that I used to know.
Q. Supposing this last rise was located half a mile, or three quarters, the
other side of the bridge, do you think there would have been anything to prevent
the engineer from seeing it? A. No, sir, I think not.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Did you ever, in riding upon an engine after night, take
anything to how far the head-light would throw the light? A. Nothing as to
distance.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You said if this bridge had been on fire, that there
would have been nothing to hinder the engineer from seeing it at half a mile? A.
If there were no obstructions in the way.
Q. Do you know anything about air brakes? A. Nothing at all.
Q. Do you know whether this train stopped at the crossing, and then at the depot
at Chatsworth? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. You don't know how long it would take to fill the air chamber again? A. Not
exactly. It would take longer on a long train than on a short one.
Q. How much longer on a train of 15 cars than on a train of 5 cars? A. I cannot
state the exact time.
Q. Supposing it stopped twice in Chatsworth; you don't know how long it would
take to fill the air chamber so they could stop it suddenly again, or does it
fill immediately? A. I cannot state. I don't know much about air brakes.
Mr. Orr, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John Orr.
Q. What is your age? A. 42.
Q. Where do you live? A. Piper City.
Q. What is your business? A. Mason.
Q. How long have you lived at Piper City? A. 15 years.
Q. You have been a mason all that time? A. No, sir.
Q. What have you been doing? A. A little of everything.
Q. Did you ever work on a railroad? A. Not here.
Q. Where? A. On the C. & A.
Q. In what capacity? A. Fireman.
Q. How long? A. Off and on for five years.
Q. Passenger or freight train? A. Freight train.
Q. Were you in Piper City on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were you doing that day? A. I cannot hardly tell you.
Q. Working at your trade? A. I don't think I was at work at all.
Q. Did you hear of the accident that night? A. Not until the next morning.
Q. Were you about the depot that night? A. No, sir, I was not.
Q. You live in town? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You heard about the accident the next morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time? A. It must have been between 5 and 6.
Q. Did you go to that wreck? A. Not until the train went out in the morning.
Q. What train was that? A. They had an engine here.
Q. Had any of the wounded been brought here before you went? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you go to the wreck? A. I am not sure, but I think between 6
and 7.
Q. All the wounded had gone away? A. All except some that were able to walk
around.
Q. Had the dead been removed? A. No, sir.
Q. Was anybody engaged in moving them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the wrecking train there at that time? A. I think it was.
Q. Were they at work on the wreck? A. Not at that time. The men were around
taking out the dead.
Q. Were they taking people out of the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Many persons there then? A. Not so many in the morning.
Q. What did you do? A. I didn't do much of anything; looked around.
Q. Did you help? A. When required.
Q. What to do? A. Helped to get out bodies.
Q. The wounded had all been removed? A. So far as I know.
Q. What did you see there? Anything except these people getting the dead out of
the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What? A. I saw a little plundering done.
Q. Who was doing it? A. They were strangers to me.
Q. What sort of looking people were they? A. The first was a man with a very
thin face, weighing about 135 pounds, plundering the grips.
Q. Was he a passenger? A. I don't know.
Q. Did he belong here? A. No, sir.
Q. What was he doing? A. One of the train men brought out a grip and said be
careful, there is a pocket-book in here with $500, and he set it down, and this
man set right down by the side of it.
Q. Was he a train man? A. I don't know, sir.
Q. What did the train man do? A. He set it down, and this man set right down by
the side of it. I said that fellow don't look very honest. The satchel was open,
and I saw him take a pocket-book out of it and put it in his pocket.
Q. What did you do then? A. Made him put it back. I saw another man steal a
revolver there.
Q. What became of this man? A. I don't know.
Q. Did he go away from there? A. I tried to get an officer to take him. He was
there all day.
Q. What officer? A. Any one that had the power to take him. Mr. Lewis, I spoke
to him, and he said I had better get one from Chatsworth.
Q. Did he ask you to make an affidavit to this fact? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you offer to make one? A. No, sir.
Q. Did he get the pocket-book? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see anybody get away with a pocket-book? A. No, sir, but I did with a
revolver. There was a man came out with a grip and one of the darkies said,
"Give that to me," and he came out with the grip in one hand, and something in
the other—but I don't know whether he took anything or not.
Q. Did you see any other pillaging? A. Yes, sir; I saw a man brought out there,
and a man said, "This is a friend of mine," and he run his hand down into his
pockets and got some bills and silver, and shoved it all down into his pocket,
and didn't count it; and by that time they brought out another one .
Q. Do you know who the man was? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. Do you know whether he was a Peoria man? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know what became of any of these men? A. No, sir, I don't know what
did.
Q. Did you say anything about their conduct? A. No, sir, but there was a man
standing there. He put all the money together and didn't stop to count it.
Q. He said he was a friend? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any other instances? A. I didn't examine.
Q. Did you see any others? A. I saw men all the time.
Q. Did you know any of them? A. I didn't know one of them.
Q. Was any man arrested there? A. I heard there was, but I don't know.
Q. That's what you did see? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything more that you can state distinctively? A. Nothing more.
What they did with the stuff, I don't know. I saw one fellow go through a
satchel.
Q. Did you know him? A. No, sir, they were all strangers.
Q. That was after they were all removed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't know either of these men? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. What time was this? A. When I first noticed it, it was
about an hour after I got there.
Q. You got there at what time? A. The train left here between 6 and 7.
Q. About 8? A. It must have been a little after 8.
Q. Did you see this man that put his hands into the pockets—did he stay around
there? A. I saw him about half an hour afterwards.
Q. How long did you stay? A. I stayed until about 4.
Q. You don't know positively but what they might have been friends of the dead
men? A. A friend is not very apt to do that; he wouldn't mix it up so.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. Did anybody see this beside you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who? A. Mr. Lyons; he lives here in town.
Q. Did you call his attention to it? A. No, sir, he saw it himself.
Q. Did you call anybody's attention to these things at the time? A. I did to the
revolver and the satchel to a man that worked on the bridge.
Q. What bridge? A. The one that was burned out.
Q. Who was that man? A. I know him by sight.
Q. Did you call the attention of any of the railroad men to this matter? A. To
the men trying to take the pocket-book.
Q. What railroad man did you speak to? A. I cannot tell you; they said he was an
official.
Q. This was in daylight? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Gibson, being duly sworn was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. William Gibson.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Piper City.
Q. For how long? A. I have lived in town for about 2 1/2 years.
Q. What's your business? A. Clerking.
Q. Who for? A. Grain dealer.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of August? A. I was here in the evening.
Q Do you know anything about this accident that happened that evening? A.
Yes, sir, I was down there.
Q. Prior to going down there had you seen any light? A. I saw a light upon the
track about half past 9.
Q. Towards Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the character of it—was it a bright light? A. When I first saw it I
thought it was the train in the hollow.
Q. Was it cloudy at the time? A. I think it was clear.
Q. Can you see any reflection when it is clear? A. Not a reflection, it looked
like a glare.
Q. Was it pretty strong? A. It looked quite bright.
Q. That was at half past 9? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you at the time you saw the light? A. On the depot platform.
Q. The edge? A. Yes, sir, and then we walked West to the first crossing, and
spoke about it at the time.
Q. Could you see it all the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there anything to hinder anybody from seeing it on the platform, without
going to the edge? A. You cannot see past the tank.
Q. On the track you could see it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Still saw it at the crossing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see it any more that night? A. We saw it after we came back from up
the street.
Q. How long after? A. About 10 minutes.
Q. Had it changed any? A. It looked just the same.
Q. Did you see it later than that? A. No, sir.
Q. Where did you go after that? A. I went home.
Q. Saw nothing more of it? A. No, sir.
Q. When was your attention attracted to the accident? A. I was waked up about—I
cannot say the time; I think I got to the wreck about 2 o'clock.
Q. How did you go there? A. I started to walk, and this relief train overtook
me.
Q. Did you observe any fire on the track? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see the light of the fire at the bridge, or this light that you had
seen before; did you see that? A. I could not see that light until I got--
Q. Did you see it as you walked along? A. I didn't see it until I got nearly to
the county line.
Q. Why couldn't you see it before that? A. I suppose they had been working to
put it out, and the cars were piled on top of it.
Q. How close were you to the fire when you saw the light? A. I cannot say how
near; probably a quarter of a mile.
Q. Did the cars obstruct it when you were a quarter of a mile away? A. I saw it
just this side of the county line; that was the first I saw of it.
Q. You didn't see it until you got within a Quarter of a mile? A. I should think
about a quarter of a mile.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. The wreck was between you and the fire? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Did you see any of the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there anything being done for their comfort? A. Yes, sir, the crowd was
working, and giving all the help that was needed.
Q. Everybody at work? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Until it commenced to rain. I cannot tell you
how long it was.
Q. Did they send any of the wounded away before that time? A. The caboose had
been filled, and started for Piper City just before I left.
Q. Did you walk back? A. I went over to a neighbor's house.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. At what hour did you last see the light on the track before
you went to bed? A. I think it was about 10 o'clock.
Mr. Reed, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Harry Reed.
Q. Where do you live? A. Piper City.
Q. How long? A. About 7 years.
Q. What's your business? A. Section boss.
Q. How long? A. Since '76.
Q. For whom and where? A. On this road.
Q. Between here and what point? A. Between here and Secor.
Q. How many miles? A. About 50 miles from here.
Q. Which way is that? A. West.
Q. Over that whole district? A. I was at one time.
Q. What was the extent of your section this year? A. One mile West of Piper City
and five miles East.
Q. Who connects on the West? A. Chatsworth section.
Q. Did you burn any rubbish or grass on the right of way on the 10th of this
month? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you over your section that afternoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see Coughlin? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see him burning anything? A. Yes, sir, his men.
Q. At what point? A. About a quarter of a mile from this end of his section. A
mile and a quarter West of Piper City.
Q. What was he burning? A. I suppose grass and weeds.
Q. Any old ties? A. Not to my knowledge. I was not close to him.
Q. Did your gang and his gang communicate that afternoon? A. No, sir, I was
there.
Q. Was the road master along there when you were together? A. No, sir.
Q. You didn't burn any grass, but Coughlin did. Did you go with him over a
portion of his track? A. No, sir.
Q. How much did you see him burning? A. Just a little spot.
Q. What time was that? A. I should think it was 3:20 or 3:30.
Q. Did you know anything of the accident that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When were you first called? A. 1:20.
Q. Had you had occasion to observe the condition of the track in your division
that afternoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time? A. I left the West end about 3:40 and run the length East.
Q. Did you go back any more to the West end? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you have any occasion to look West that night after 6 o'clock? A. No,
sir.
Q. Was your attention called to that matter? A. No, sir.
Q. Where were you after 6 o'clock until you were called? A. I was around home,
and up to the store.
Q. You quit at 6? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were called at what hour? A. 1:20.
Q. What did you do? A. I went to the wreck.
Q. How soon? A. As quick as I could.
Q. How did you go? A. On foot.
Q. Who went with you? A. Some of these men. (Indicating.)
Q. Had anybody gone before you? A. Yes, sir,
Q. Who? A. I cannot tell you. The doctor took the hand car.
Q. Had the train gone before that? A. Not at that time.
Q. What became of the engine? A. It was here when I left.
Q. Did you see any fire between here and there? A. I did in one place.
Q. Where? A. About a mile this side.
Q. What was it? A. Pieces of ties.
Q. How many? A. I saw two.
Q. Didn't you see three? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any upon which the rails were located? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was that? A. About a mile this side of the wreck.
Q. Did you see any fire beyond that and this side of the wreck? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you go West of the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. When you got there what did you do? A. I assisted in taking care of the
wounded, and whatever I was called upon to do.
Q. You continued doing that—did you carry water? A. Yes, sir, for the wounded.
Q. Did you put any on the bridge? A. I believe I did.
Q. What time did you do that? A. Soon after I got there.
Q. How much of the bridge was burned when you did that? A. I cannot tell you how
much was burned.
Q. Was it blazing? A. No, sir.
Q. Had the fire been subjected to control? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You paid no more attention to it? A. No, sir.
Q. You didn't do anything but throw the water on? A. Some one else threw the
water on.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. The next night until after 6.
Q. What time did you get all of the wounded away from there? A. I should judge
it was between 6 and 7 A. M.
Q. Did you stay there until the dead were taken out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you help do that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are sure you got them all out? A. All that could be seen. I supposed they
were all out.
Q. What means did you take to be certain of that? A. Everything was turned over
and looked at.
Q. Was anybody in charge, of that particular business? A. Mr. Warren.
Q. You worked under him? A. Yes, sir, and Mr. Ennis.
Q. Did they have means for lifting these cars apart? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they use them for that purpose? A. I believe they did to the best of my
knowledge.
Q. Can you tell whether they did or not? A. They were handling ropes, etc.
Q. The general purpose was to get the property and persons out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You left there, the following evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you observe whether anybody was robbed? A. I didn't see anything of the
sort.
Q. Did you see anybody breaking into satchels? A. No, sir.
Q. Did anybody talk about that being done? A. After daylight.
Q. Were there many persons there? A. Yes, sir, a great many.
Q. They got out the property didn't they? A. Yes. sir.
Q. Was anybody in charge of that matter? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was it? A. I cannot tell you his name. I don't know his name; he was
painting here on the road.
Q. He is now in the employ of the railroad company? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. You said you went over your section that afternoon. What
induced you to do it? A. I had orders.
Q. Have you the order here? A. Yes, sir. (Exhibits it.)
Q. When did you receive it? A. On the morning of the 10th.
Q. Same order as that? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You spoke about the loose ties being on fire when you
went down to the bridge. How far apart were they? A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. Were they scattered between here and the bridge? A. They were not 40 feet
apart.
Mr. Jack, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. James Jack.
Q. Where do you live? A. Piper City.
Q. What's your business? A. Working oil the section.
Q. Under Mr. Reed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go with him to the wreck? A. I started with him, but I had a sore toe
and couldn't keep up, but I got there all right.
Q. Did you notice fire on the track? A. Yes, sir but nothing to amount to much.
Just some ties.
Q. Those the rails were on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many did you see? A. Two or three.
Q. Where were they? A. They were about a mile and a quarter West of here.
Q. It was on the Piper City section? A. No, sir, we had no fire at all.
Q. Hadn't you been burning some that afternoon? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you see burning besides these ties? A. Some rubbish.
Q. Didn't you see some ties burning in the ditch? A. No, sir.
Q. You got down to the wreck. What did you do when you got there? A. I worked
around and helped the wounded.
Q. Did anybody have direction of taking care of the wounded? A. Mr. Armstrong
asked me to help carry some to the train.
Q. Was that the train that was coming to Piper City? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You helped, did you? A. We didn't get them all there.
Q. What did you do? A. We covered them up.
Q. Did you do anything more? A. I worked all night
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Until the next night.
Q. Working under the direction of whom? A. My foreman.
Q. Did you have anything to do with the fire at the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you go West of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time? A. Perhaps three-quarters of an hour after I got there.
Q. Did you see any signs of fire West of the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you on the South side? A. Yes, sir, all around.
Q. Had the dead all been removed when you got there? A. I guess they were.
Q. Do you know? A. I believe so.
Q. Your business was to give attention to that matter? A. I was put to moving
trunks.
Q. Did you move any satchels? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was done with them? A. The trunks were carried to the flat car, and the
satchels were put at the hedge.
Q. Was anybody in charge? A. Yes, sir, there was a man, but I don't know his
name.
Q. Was he in the employ of the railroad? A. I guess so.
Q. Did you hear Mr. Armstrong say anything to him? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you hear Mr. Warren say anything to him? A. No, sir.
Mr. Roberts, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John Roberts.
Q. Were you with this gentleman that was last on the witness stand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go with him? A. I went with the train.
Q. What time did you get there? A. I don't know.
Q. What did you do when you got there? A. I helped take out the people.
Q. What time did you get there? A. I don't know what time it was.
Q. What train did you go on? A. On a caboose from Gilman.
Q. When you got there you took care of the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you do any other work? A. That's all.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Pretty near daylight.
Q. Did you come away with the wounded? A. I was sick and went home.
Q. Did you see any fire as you went down there? A. No, sir, I was in the
caboose.
Mr. Lewis, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John R. Lewis.
Q. What is your age? A. 50.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Piper City.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. I came here first in '65.
Q. What's your business? A. I am County Surveyor of this county, and have charge
of some farms.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That evening? A. I came home the night before.
Q. Did you see anything of the light on the track? A. No, sir, I was not out of
my house that evening.
Q. Did you hear of the accident that night? A. About midnight I was awakened up
by being called by Mr. Reynolds; he was calling a neighbor across the street. I
saw there was appearances of a storm, and I fixed my rain barrels, and Mr.
Reynolds called to me that there was a fearful wreck up the road, and wanted
everybody to go up, and I walked up.
Q. What time did you start? A. I never looked at the time. I started and got up
on the railroad track and it was quite dark, and I went back and got my lantern.
Q. Did you see anything of a light? A. No, sir, not when I first struck the
road.
Q. How near had you got to the wreck when you did see a light? A. Probably a
mile.
Q. Where was that? A. On land section 6.
Q. How far would that be from here? A. About a mile and a half.
Q. Where was the light? A. There was a little fire in the hedge, and also a
little fire in two or three places near by the track.
Q. Were the ties on fire? A. The ends of old ties.
Q. Were they the ones the rails were on? A. They were partly under the rails;
the rails were on the ties.
Q. How many were on fire? A. Two or three that I observed.
Q. Did you see any others on fire before you got to the wreck? A. Not until I
got to the wreck.
Q. From which way was the wind blowing at that time? A. A little Southwest I
think.
Q. Did you see any light from the bridge? A. I saw the reflection ahead of me
after I got a mile out. I then saw the reflection of the light from the burning
bridge; then I could see over where there was a reflection.
Q. You saw no more fire until you got to the wreck? A. No, sir. I was told the
wreck was this side of the county line, but it was 40 rods West of the county
line.
Q. Between that point and the bridge did you see any signs of fire? A. No, sir,
there was no fire between there and the wreck.
Q. Was there any between the 40 rods and the ties? A. No, sir.
Q. When you got there did you go to the bridge? A. I went right down—this
caboose had gone ahead of me—I went right down on the South side and there I
found several persons laid out in strings. I lit my light as I came by the
engine; it was quite dark. Of course when I got there I saw they were working as
lively as they could. I helped take out first, a large woman; she was dead, and
was laid down by the side of the other dead. I helped two or three injured
persons out, and then we commenced breaking into the upper coach. It was the top
one, and we broke in there with axes.
Q. How many of these cars were piled one upon another? A. Right there I didn't
discover anything, but went to work. I helped take some of the dead bodies out,
and I worked there until it commenced to rain, I was putting blankets, etc.,
over the injured. I stayed on that side until near morning taking out the dead.
I saw Mr. Hangs, and quite a number of people there. A while after I got there
Albert McKinney came there and he was hunting for Mr. Armstrong; I told him we
could find him—he had been sent from Piper City with a telegram, and I told him
we would find Armstrong. I called for Armstrong after I had passed around. I
went around the coach near the culvert and I hollered to some parties, to know
where Mr. Armstrong was, and then we came back. As we were coming back a
gentleman came to me. and wanted to know what was wanted, and he took this
dispatch and read it. I don't know what the dispatch was, but he told Mr.
McKinney to tell the dispatcher to send the wrecking train as soon as possible.
He said something about what was inquired about in the telegram. Then I came
back on the South side until nearly daylight, then I went home to Piper City.
Q. Did you go back again? A. I milked the cow. ate my breakfast and returned.
Q. How long did you stay that time? A. Until about 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I
think I got home about 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. What did you do during that time? A. When I got back—the first thing after I
got back, we discovered there was a dead person under the wreck, on the North
side. We dug under there and got the man out, and took him out. At the same time
there was quite a crowd there, and I inquired where the custodian was. Mr. John
Zee was there, and I called upon him to take the things. There was four or five
satchels handed to me; there was a gold headed cane, with the head broke off
from the cane—a gentleman's gold watch and charm. They were delivered to Mr.
Zee, and the body was taken out and laid by the side of six or eight others.
After we got that body out, we saw a lady hanging by her heels on the North side
of the car, and we got some axes, etc., and took her out, and we got another man
out of the car by -----.
Q. Had the wrecking train arrived at that time? A. The wrecking train was
working on the car over the culvert. Then there were two ladies there with their
heads jammed between the cars, and we got a long rail and some eight or ten men
raised it up so as to let them out.
Q. Did you stay there until all the dead were gotten out? A. All that were
discovered.
Q. What time did you leave? A. I got home about 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. While you were there, did you see anybody robbing the dead? A. No, sir, I did
not. Mr. Orr came to me and said there was a man robbing a person there, and had
taken something away, and wanted to know if I could not arrest them. I told him
it was a policeman's duty to arrest them.
Q. You didn't see it yourself? A. Not at any time when I was there.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. The fires were all on the Chatsworth section? A. I don't know
where the division is. They were on section 6, and pretty well towards the
center of the section. I am speaking of land sections.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. How far from the town? A. Up to the first section
line it is a half a mile; then across section 5 is a mile; then it would be
nearly half a mile West of that.
Q. The first was a mile and a half from Piper City? A. It would be a mile and
three-quarters.
Q. That was the first? A. Yes, sir.
Q. All the other fires were West of that? A. I saw no other until I got to the
wreck.
Q. They were all together? A. Yes, sir
Q. Where was the fire in the hedge? A. Right beside it.
Mr. Lyons, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Alex. Lyons.
Q. Where do you live? A. Piper City.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. I have lived here for about six years.
Q. Were you here on the 10th, of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you here on the night of the 10th? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any fire up towards Chatsworth? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear of the railroad accident that night? A. Not until the next
morning.
Q. Did you go to where the accident happened? A. Yes. sir.
Q. What time? A. I went, up with a freight train in the morning.
Q. After daylight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any fire as you went up there? A. Not any.
Q. What did you do, anything? A. No, sir, I thought I would be in the way.
Q. Did you see the others doing anything? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were they doing—taking care of the wounded? A. They were all gone.
Q. What were the men doing there? A. Throwing out the debris, and taking out
dead men.
Q. Many at work? A. Quite a number.
Q. You didn't help because you couldn't? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see anybody robbing the dead people? A. I could not tell exactly
whether they were robbing or not. I saw a dead man taken out of the wreck, and
he was carried to the North side of the track by three men. A young looking man
with—he had on blue overalls—I don't think I could identify him—he had on blue
clothes. When the dead man was laid clown, I saw him put his hand in his right
hand side of his pocket, and pulled out a handful of silver, and put it in his
own pocket; he put his left hand in his other pocket, and pulled out a handful
of bills, and he opened his hand just wide enough to see that it was bills, and
he slipped them into his pocket; he put his hand into his vest pocket and took
out some papers, but he saw it was a railroad ticket.
Q. Did you see it was a railroad ticket? A. I thought it was. He put his hand
into the dead man's pocket and took out some papers, and they looked to me as if
they were notes, and he put those in his vest pocket, and then he went down to
the wreck. I kept my eye on him. There was another man taken out, and he
followed him up—he didn't help to carry that man—and he followed him up until he
was laid down beside the one he had taken the money from, and he went through
the same process.
Q. Did he say anything to these other men? A. Not a word.
Q. Which side of the road was this? A. The North side.
Q. That was after you got there? A. Yes, sir, I saw no wounded.
Q. Did you say anything to anybody about that? A. Not there, but I talked about
it after I got home. I was excited.
Q. You didn't mention it? A. Not on the grounds.
Q. Did these other men see him do this? A. I don't know whether they did or not.
Q. Were they present when you saw him do it? A. When he begun they were. The
dead man's pantaloons had fallen down over his hips, and this man who had his
hands in the dead man's pockets could hardly get the pantaloons up for some
little time, and some one said, ''Unbutton his pantaloons under there."
Q. Some one said that to him before he put his hands into his pockets? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did they remain there while this performance was going on? A. I don't know.
Q. You didn't say anything on the grounds? A. Not that I recollect of. I did
here in Piper City.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. How long did you remain there after you saw that? A.
Some time.
Q. Did you see this man afterwards? A. Not to recognize him.
Q. You wouldn't know him again? A. I don't think I would.
Q. You don't know whether they were friends or not? A. I cannot tell.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. This was in daylight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say he had on blue overalls? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you give us a description of him? A. He was tall, probably six feet high,
no beard; I think his face was clean, and he was rather light.
Q. Did he appear to be a laborer? A. I took him to be a railroad hand.
Q. You had never seen him before? A. Not that I recollect of.
Q. Did you hear anybody address him by name? A. No, sir.
Q. You haven't seen him since? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. They said "unbutton his pantaloons" because he could
not get his hands in his pockets? A. Some one said, "Pull them up."
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. Did you know those other men? A. I didn't know any of the
parties.
Q. Did they have the appearance of laborers? A. They looked to be men from the
surrounding country.
Q. Have you seen them since? A. Not that I know of.
At bridge where wreck occurred. August 29, 1887.
Mr. Tobenske, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John Tobenske.
Q. Were you examined at Peoria? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you at that time mention the fact that you burned some grass West of the
bridge on the 10th of August? A. East of the bridge.
Q. At that time did you state that you burned some grass West of the bridge? A.
I don't recollect whether I did or not.
Q. Is it a fact that you did on the 10th burn some grass West of the bridge? A.
Yes. sir. Just some little patches; there was a little smoke there when we left.
Q. Did the fire from that run to the bridge? A. It wasn't very much. I can not
say whether the fire run into the bridge or not.
Q. Where was the smoke, how many feet from the bridge? A. Between 65 and 75
feet. There was a little smoke from some old pieces of ties.
Q. What time in the afternoon did you burn that stuff? A. About half past 5
o'clock.
Q. What time did you leave this bridge? A. About a quarter of 6.
Q. Did you observe just before you left the bridge whether there was any fire
about it? A. There was no fire about it; we stopped on it with the hand car.
Q. Which way was the wind blowing? A. From the Southwest.
Q. What did you burn there? A. Some prairie grass.
Q. Anything else? A. Some weeds.
Q. Was there some wood burned that day? A. Some chips that were thrown from the
track.
Q. Did the fire run across from there a point 65 feet Southwest of the bridge up
to the bridge? A. I could not say.
Q. How much stuff did you burn there? A. It wasn't much.
Q. Could you carry it in your arms? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just about an armful? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Shaver, being duly sworn, was examined by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Charlie Shaver.
Q. Did you do any burning West of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you burn any in August? A. Two days before the wreck.
Q. How near to the bridge did the fire come? A. 12 feet.
Q. That was two days before the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Whose section do you work on? A. Under Mr. Coughlin.
Q. You burned that two days before the fire? A. Yes, sir, two days before the
bridge burned.
Q. What become of the grass that you cut—did you burn it up? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you put some green grass over the point 65 feet Southwest of the bridge,
did you cut that? A. I cut it, but I didn't burn it.
Q. You were at work under Coughlin then? A. Yes, sir.
Chatsworth, Illinois, August, 29th.
Mr. Dolph, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. A. T. Dolph.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Township of Chatsworth, on section No. 1.
Q. How far is your residence from the village or station of Chatsworth? A. About
three miles. One half mile North, and two and a half miles East.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Eighteen years.
Q. What's your business? A. Farming.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of this month? A. I wasn't here, I was at home.
Q. How far is your residence from the railroad? A. About one hundred rods North
of the railroad track.
Q. Are you East or West of the town? A. I am in the North corner of the
township.
Q. About eighty rods North of the railroad track? A. About one hundred rods.
Q. Do you know anything of this accident that happened on the night of the 10th
of August? A. I was there pretty quick after it happened.
Q. Did you observe any light or fire on the track prior to the accident? A.
About 8 o'clock, probably a little before 8 I went out into the corn field to
get an armful of corn, and I discovered a reflection of light near where the
bridge is.
Q. Did it attract your attention? A. I noticed it, but I saw no blaze, I just
saw a reflection.
Q. At that time you saw a reflection. Was it cloudy? A. I just saw a light.
Q. Couldn't see any blaze? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you notice it later? A. No, sir, I went to bed at 9 o'clock.
Q. The point at which you saw it would be East of the elevation that is
immediately East of the depot here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you think from where you stood you can see a man in daylight standing on
the bridge? A. I can see a man just as quick as I pass the hedge from my
barnyard.
Q. What next attracted your attention in that direction? A. Nothing until I was
called in the night.
Q. Do you know what time that was? A. Not far from 12 o'clock.
Q. Did you then direct your attention to the same point? A. A couple of men said
there was a wreck there in the bridge, and I went out there.
Q. Did you see anything of the light after being aroused? A. When I got out
there I could see there was a fire at the bridge.
Q. Could you see it from your place? A. I could when I got out into the
stubble.
Q. Did you observe the light from your place after you were aroused? A. As soon
as I got into the lot.
Q. How far is that from your house? A. The gate out of the barnyard goes into
the oats field, and the oats field is one hundred rods long, and forty rods
wide.
Q. How far are you from your house when you enter the field? A. Forty rods.
Q. You went to the wreck, did you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At that time what did you see? A. I saw a dead woman, the first thing I
noticed.
Q. Did you observe the bridge being on fire when you got there? A. I saw there
was a fire there, but I didn't go to the bridge until the next day; I didn't go
as far West as that.
Q. How did you go to the train without passing the bridge? A. I was East of the
bridge all the time.
Q. You didn't see the bridge until the next morning? A. Not until the next day
when I went there.
Q. You saw this woman there; was she dead? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do when you got there? A. I went along by the side of the car, I
couldn't get through on that side, so I cut a hole through with my ax, and there
was a man stood right there in the window, and he said, "Don't cut there any
more, or you will cut me open." I then passed around ahead of the engine, and
got around on the other side, and got up on something and hung into the window,
and walked along and drew men in at the fifth window.
Q. What did you do in there? A. Some folks said, " For God sake get me out," and
I said, "I will if I can." There was a man on the outside cutting with an ax,
and I got the ax in there, and stayed there until I couldn't do any more, then
the ax was passed over to the door, and some of the passengers split the door
open, and I helped the people out through the door.
Q. You helped how long? A. Until they were about all out of the car.
Q. Did you have any light? A. There was a lantern.
Q. Was that before the rain? A. Yes, sir; when I got out of the car it looked
like rain. I had no coat or vest on, so I went home because it does not effect
me right to get wet.
Q. Did you return any more that night? A. I went back about 4 o'clock and stayed
until daylight.
Q. What were you doing then? A. Not much of anything. I picked up a little
satchel—it was daylight then—and there was a ticket sticking out, and I said to
a young man, "See if there is a name on this ticket." The name was Mrs. Stevens.
I gave it to a man in town, and he said the folks were dead, and were there.
Q. Did you stay there until the wounded were all taken out? A. I think they were
all out when I went back the second time.
Q. Do you know whether there was any fire in the vicinity of the bridge on the
afternoon of the 10th? A. About 5 o'clock or a little after I went to the stable
to harness my horses to go across the railroad track, and while I was harnessing
there came a big smoke across, and I went over towards the railroad to see what
they were burning. I went to within about forty rods of the railroad track and I
saw the fire was on the other side of the track.
Q. What direction from the bridge was it? A. East.
Q. How far? A. About forty rods from the road.
Q. How near would that be to the bridge? A. Some twenty rods to the bridge.
There might have been fire burning over the ground where I wouldn't notice it.
Q. Did you cross the railroad as you expected to? A. About 6 o'clock.
Q. How near to the bridge did you cross the railroad? A. About sixty rods.
Q. Did you see any fire? A. I saw smoke.
Q. How near to the bridge? A. I could not say how near; probably forty rods from
the highway road.
Q. Between the road and the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you observe any West of the bridge? A. I did not, no, sir; not that I
remember of.
Q. Were you near enough to have observed smoke if it had been West of the
bridge? A. I was near enough, but didn't notice it particularly.
Q. Did you look in the direction of the bridge as you returned? A. I looked but
saw no fire.
Q. Did you see smoke at that time? A. It was about dark.
Q. Do you remember whether it was cloudy? A. I don't think it was at that time.
Q, And your impression is that it was not cloudy at 8 o'clock when you went to
the field? A. There was no moon. About 6, I went South, and after dark I went
back.
Q. You went to bed soon after you got home? A. About 9 o'clock.
Q. At the time you went to bed you saw a light in that direction? A. I saw a
little light, but no blaze. I have seen a good many along the road.
Q. At that time did you have any impression as to its precise location? A. No,
sir.
Q. Did it occur to you that it was the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Since that time would you say it was the bridge? A. I could not locate it.
Q. Do you know anything more about this matter than what you have already told?
A. No, sir, I don't know that I do.
Q. At what hour was it that you saw the big smoke? A. A little after 5 o'clock.
Q. Did you see the section men? A. I saw the section men West of the bridge;
they were getting on their car.
Q. How near to the bridge? A. They couldn't have been a great ways.
Q. Would you say one hundred yards? A. I don't think it was that much.
Q. And you saw this from one hundred rods? A. I was then forty rods from the
railroad; that's the time I went to look.
Q. And at that time you saw no smoke West of the bridge? A. No, sir, I don't
know that I saw any fire West of the bridge.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. When you saw this fire at 8 o'clock how far away from the
bridge were you? A. One hundred rods. My oats field is one hundred rods away
from the railroad North, and right North of it is the corn field.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Your land runs up to the railroad? A. Yes, sir; the
corner of the stubble field runs within three rods of the bridge.
Q. Your house is how far from the bridge? A. It is a little over one hundred
rods from the bridge to the house.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. When you went out that evening and saw the light, was the
light a small light? A. Yes, sir.
Q. No blaze that you saw? A. I could not see any blaze.
Q. Did it excite your suspicion? A. Not at all, sir.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. If the bridge had been blazing you could have seen
it? A. I think I could.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. It probably had not got under much headway at that
time? A. I presume not, if it was the bridge.
Q. Is it your impression that it was the bridge? A. I never have said it was the
bridge.
Q. What do you say it was? A. I don't know whether it was the bridge or not; I
could not tell.
Mr. Brown, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. J. E. Brown.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Here. (Chatsworth.)
Q. What's your business? A. Banking.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Fourteen years.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of this month? A. I was.
Q. That evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you on the train that met with this accident? A. I was not.
Q. Was your attention given to that train in any way? A. I was in waiting at the
depot.
Q. While you were there did you observe any appearances of fire in the vicinity
East of Chatsworth? A. I did.
Q. What was its appearance? A. It was a feeble light; not a blaze.
Q. In what direction? A. East.
Q. What was the nature of it? A. It was a light—I supposed it was probably a
light smoke, no blaze at all, and the character of it is beyond description.
Q. Was it cloudy? Was the reflection downward, or was it thrown up and
reflected by the smoke? A. It was quite low. The circumstance that attracted my
attention more particularly, was a conversation that took place between myself
and another gentleman that was in waiting to take the freight train from the
East; he (Mr. Jones) claiming this light was a head-light of his train. I had
seen it before that, but I was unable to satisfy myself that it was a
head-light. We were
there a good while, and I looked at it a good deal. I got upon the track and
looked as near as I could directly East.
Q. At what hour? A. We went to the depot about twenty minutes after 9 o'clock,
and the train was due at 9:40 o'clock. I wouldn't say whether I saw the fire
immediately or not, but I think it was fully an hour and a half before the
arrival of the train that we saw the light.
Q. Was it a strong light? A. No, sir, but it was stronger at times than others.
Sometimes I could see it plainly; other times, I was not satisfied that it was a
light.
Q. How long did you observe this? A. For about an hour and a half.
Q. You gave attention to this light? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it of such a character as to enable you to form an opinion as to the
cause of it? A. None whatever. It seemed to be on the track as near as we could
tell, and of course we didn't feel that it was on the track, and that there was
any danger arising from it, which was clearly proven by my father going on the
train.
Q. That was the excursion train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was your father going on the train? A. He was.
Q. What was its appearance the last time you saw it with respect to brilliancy?
A. My remembrance is that it was not as strong as it had been.
Q. Was the attention of the agent called to it by you, or any of the parties
discussing it? A. It was not.
Q. Why didn't you call his attention to it? A. That is a question I have asked
myself since. His attention was not called to it to my knowledge by any of the
people in waiting there. We talked about the train.
Q. Was he out there among those people while they were talking? A. Not to my
knowledge. He was on the platform, but I don't think after the conversation
about the fire that he was there.
Q. He was in the office? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did anybody call the attention of the engineer or anybody on the train to
this fire? A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Do you know why they did not? A. I do not.
Q. You say your father went on down there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know anything more about it until the accident happened? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you observe it at any other point? A. Not until after the accident. I ran
down to the hotel and got a team to go down. In looking down the track I could
see it.
Q. Was it stronger then? A. It seemed to be, but I don't know whether it was
stronger than it had been at any time before that; but that was soon after the
accident.
Q. After the train left here did you see it any more until after you heard of
the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. How far do you live from the depot? A. Four blocks.
Q. Could you see the light from your house? A. No, sir.
Q. When the accident happened you went down there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you arrive there? A. Probably between 12:30 and 12:45.
Q. How did your attention become attracted to the accident? A. This Mr. Jones
that was on the platform waiting for this train, was the man that the messenger
from the wreck struck first, and he, knowing that my folks were on the train,
ran to my house immediately.
Q. You think you got there about 12:45? A. I think so.
Q. Did you go to the bridge immediately? A. I struck right at the bridge.
Q. How
much of a fire was there then? A. Very little.
Q. Had there been anything done
to it? A. I suppose so.
Q. Was it flaming? A. No, sir.
Q. What condition was the bridge in then; was any of it in blaze? A. I cannot
answer that question. As I went there, I went from the South; the way I happened
to strike the train at the bridge was because I ran into the ditch, and followed
it up to the bridge.
Q. The ditch is in the field? A. Yes, sir; I got off the wagon South of the
railroad and ran through the field and got opposite the train. I ran into this
ditch, and then followed it up to the train.
Q. But you cannot tell whether the rails were stretched across or not? A. I
cannot tell much about it.
Q. You didn't pay any attention to the bridge? A. Very little.
Q. I suppose you
found your parents all right? A. Yes, sir, they were home when I got there.
Q. Did you stay there and assist? A. Yes, sir, until morning.
Q. Give your views
with respect to the care that was given the wounded. A. I don't see how there
could be any better care than was given them under the circumstances; they all
did what they could.
Q. When you left, had all the wounded been taken out of the wreck? A. I think
so. There were some dead bodies in the wreck, but the wounded were all taken
out.
Q. About what time did you leave? A. I returned home about half past 7 o'clock.
Q. Did you return to the wreck any more? A. Not since.
Q. Is there anything further that you would like to state? A. Nothing
particularly. I do remember one matter that was asked; my attention was
attracted from the fire to the coming train. I was standing on the track looking
towards the fire when the train came.
Q. Was the fire less strong then? A. I think it was not quite as brilliant just
before the arrival of the train.
Q. Tell us why you were looking at the fire at that time? A. Because we saw it,
and were waiting, and had nothing else to do but to look at it.
Q. There was no
uneasiness? A. None whatever.
Q. So little that you said nothing about it? A.
No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You say you saw the light just before the train came
in here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you see any reason why the engineer could not have seen it? A. I could
see no reason why he could not have seen it, it he had no head-light. My opinion
is that he could not see through his own light to see this. I can explain it in
no other way; it has occurred to me that way. Unless he could see over or under
the reflection of his light, I don't think he could have seen it. His light
would absorb that, for his was the greatest.
Q. Would it hinder you from seeing a light a half a mile off? A. That depends
upon the power of this light. As it occurs to me, this light that we were
looking at was a light low down, and from here we could only see possibly the
rising smoke.
Q. It was cloudy at that time? A. I cannot answer that question.
Q. Was it a
dark night? A. It was somewhat dark, but I have no means of knowing to what
extent the darkness prevailed.
Q. You don't know whether it was cloudy or not? A. I remember there was a cloud
passing over to the North-west.
Q. Your judgment would be that if the reflection of the head-light didn't
interfere he could have seen the light—the track is perfectly straight? A. In a
conversation between myself and Mr. Jones it seemed to be directly East; it
seemed to be that way.
Q. This was from the depot? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you get out a certain distance, you get up on a higher grade; couldn't
you have seen it from there? A. I would presume so; I cannot answer that.
Q. At the highest grade you could see it better? A. Certainly. I should think he
could have seen it on the grade West of here.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. I understand that your opinion as to whether that engineer
could have seen that light is based upon what you saw here, and you think unless
the head-light interfered that he could have seen it as well as you? A. I can
see no reason why he couldn't unless he had something to obstruct his sight.
Q. Of course you know nothing about other points? A. The reason that I remarked
that he ought to have seen it West of here, is because that grade is higher than
the one East of here.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. He was higher up in the air than you? A. Oh, yes; I
was standing at the time we were in conversation about it on the track.
Q. How much higher was he than you? A. I suppose his feet would have been about
as high as my shoulders. I should think four or five feet.
Mr. Brown, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q.. What is your name? A. Thos. Y. Brown.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Chatsworth.
Q. What is your business? A. Banker.
Q. How long have you resided here? A. About seventeen years.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you purposing to go on that excursion? A. I was.
Q. Were you at the depot any length of time before the train arrived? A. About
two and a half hours.
Q. During that time did you observe any light upon the track? A. I did. My
attention was called to it by Mr. Jones saying his train was coming. He was
going West on a freight train. There seemed to be quite a difference of opinion
as to what it was. It was there a couple of hours; just a little light; didn't
look like a head-light to me, there was too little of it.
Q. You discussed it? A. I thought it was not a head-light.
Q. Did it occur to you that it was a bridge on fire? A. I was not alarmed at all
about it. My wife was with me, and I didn't think enough of it to notify
anybody, but we got on the train and rode right into it, and even then I didn't
know that was the fire we had been looking at.
Q. Did you see any fire between here and the bridge? A. I did not. I want to say
just this; that I went there and on the bridge and then I saw the fire; I got
out as quick as we could. When we got out I took no notice of the bridge—I
walked out into the weeds and came right straight home.
Q. Did it make any considerable light? A. No, sir. The fire as it was under the
car looked like there might be considerable danger. I supposed the engine had
dropped it that moment.
Q. Did you notice to what extent the bridge was burned? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. You didn't go beyond to see what was on the East side? A. No, sir. I was
fixed so I couldn't think of anything to do but come home. I had my wife with me
and she is a little feeble. I felt a little guilty that I didn't try to do some
good, but my wife was totally unfit to leave anywhere unless I was with her, and
I thought there was certainly enough men there that were able to do some good,
and I just turned my back on the whole thing and came off and left it. I think
under the same circumstances that I should have to do the same thing again.
Q. In that connection, Mr. Brown, let me ask your age. A. Seventy-six; nearly
seventy-seven.
Q. You came away? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your son remained? A. He came afterwards, but I did not see him until the
next day.
Q. Is there anything else that you know that you want to state? A. Nothing that
I know of. The light was not alarming at all. It seemed to be exactly in the
line of the road if the road was straight. I didn't know whether the road was
straight or not, but it looked to be exactly so from the depot.
Q. You were alarmed? A. Not at all. I didn't dream of the least danger at all.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You could see the light distinctly? A. Yes, sir. it
seemed to be low down; I am informed it is on low ground. It might be that we
saw it ten feet above the track.
Q. What part of the car were you in? A. Right in front.
Q. Did the whole bridge seem to be on fire? A. Being in the car, I could not
tell; the fire seemed to be stirred up, as if it was about to make quite a fire.
Q. Jumping onto it would make it burn up? A. Certainly.
Q. Isn't it your judgment that it had been burning some time? A. I would have to
guess at it. It was on fire a good while certainly.
Q. How long before you started was the last you saw of it—were you looking that
way when the train came in? A. Not for half an hour perhaps. We see these fires
so often, that we think nothing of them at all.
Q. Did the train seem to be running at an unusual rate of speed? A. I cannot
say.
Q. Had you gone to bed? You had one of the berths in the sleeper? A. No, sir, we
had not gone to bed. I had my ticket for the berth; I got on up towards the
front cars, and I went through those cars as fast as I could; the people had
fixed themselves for the night in the chair cars; I went through as fast as I
could, and got back into the sleeper.
Mr. Hallam, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. William Hallam.
Q. Where do you reside? A. About two and one-half miles West of here.
Q. How long have you resided there? A. About nineteen years.
Q. What's your business? A. Farming.
Q. Do you know anything of the accident that happened on the T., P. & W. road on
the 10th of this month? A. I know a little something about it.
Q. Was your attention attracted to any fire that evening on the road? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. At what time? A. I don't know as I could really state it.
Q. You were going on the train? A. Yes, sir; myself and my son.
Q. Then you were at Chatsworth that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. I don't know really; I should judge it was probably 10
o'clock.
Q. What did you see? A. I was in the depot and some person outside--
Q. Were you examined before the coroner's jury? A. Yes, sir. Somebody made the
remark that the train was coming from the East, and I went out to see it coming,
I suppose.
Q. What was the appearance when you went out there? A. I supposed there was a
train coming, and I thought it was a head-light on an engine.
Q. What amount of light was there; was it strong or dim? A. It looked to me like
the reflection of a head-light, just before you see the light itself.
Q. Did it appear to be on the line of the railroad? A. Yes, sir, right directly.
Q. How long did it continue? A. I noticed it all evening, as long as we were
there; probably two hours.
Q. Did you notice it just before the train arrived? A. I think I did.
Q. What was its character then? A. It seemed to be just about the same all the
time.
Q. Was it reflected from the clouds, or was it light? A. It seemed to be rising
from the ground; it seemed to be over the raise of the hill.
Q. At the point where you stood, isn't there a rise to the East? A. I think
there is a little elevation.
Q. Were you looking up to that elevation? A. No, sir.
Q. Did anybody else you know of do so? A. No, sir, not that I know of; we
finally made up our minds that it was grass burning on the other side of the
road.
Q. Did you say anything to the railroad people about it? A. No, sir.
Q. To the engineer? A. No, sir.
Q. Why didn't you? A. I didn't think there was any danger, or I should not have
got on the train.
Q. You got on the train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car? A. The first one that carried passengers.
Q. Was it a chair car? A. No, sir.
Q. Next after leaving here when was your attention attracted to any light? Did
you see any before the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see any just at the time of the accident? A. Not for a few minutes.
As soon as I got out I saw sparks, and I thought the train was on fire.
Q. Did you go to the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you get hurt? A. No, sir, not particularly.
Q. How is your son? A. Not hurt particularly.
Q. How soon after the accident did you get out of the car? A. I could not tell
you exactly; it didn't seem to be over five minutes; my foot was fastened at
first. I got straightened up a little and saw this fire and it made me stir
around a little, I finally pulled my left boot off of my foot, and then I got
out.
Q. Did you go to the bridge? A. Not then.
Q. How long before you did go there? A. I didn't go there until--it must have
been an hour after that.
Q. You gave attention to what? A. To the wounded.
Q. Paid no attention to the fire? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there anything to hinder an engineer from seeing that light? A. It is my
impression that there was not. It has been my impression all along that he
could see it on the rise West of here, as well as he could here, if he could see
it at all. I don't know whether a man could see it with a head-light.
Q. Have you ever been on an engine when the head-light was burning? A. No, sir,
I don't know how it appears.
Q. What time did you leave in the morning? A. About daylight.
Q. You didn't see any robbing? A. Not while I was there.
Q. Did you go back the next day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any then? A. No, sir.
Q. How long did you stay the next day? A. Two or three hours.
Q. Got back at what time? A. Two o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. You stayed there until daylight in the morning? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. How long before you started on the train did you see
that light? A. I should think one and a half or two hours.
Q. The last time? A. You could see it at any time you was a mind to look.
Q. Do you believe now that if the head-light didn't interfere that there was a
foot of ground between Chatsworth and the bridge that the engineer couldn't have
seen the light? A. I don't believe there was.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Did you see any fire at all? A. None at all.
Q. All there was, was a glimmer of light? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You thought it was a head-light because it was on the
track, and you would naturally suppose that being on the track that it was a
head-light, and that's the reason you thought it was a head-light? A. That's it.
Q. The reflection from any other fire would look about the same? A. I presume it
would.
Q. You are now satisfied that it was the light from the bridge? A. I am
satisfied of that, yes, sir.
Mr. Hallam, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. William H. Hallam.
Q. You were examined before the coroner's jury? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You reside with your father? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were with him on the night of the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Before you took the train after you arrived at Chatsworth, did you see any
light or reflection of a light upon the track, or that seemed to be on the track
East of Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. Tell us what its appearance was to you. A. I supposed it was the train
coming from the East; there was one due.
Q. When did you first observe it, and how long did you observe it? A. I don't
know how long; about two hours I should think.
Q. What space of time elapsed after you last saw it until the train arrived
here? A. Over half an hour before that.
Q. You had ceased to look at it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the quantity of light increase? A. No, sir.
Q. Seemed to be about the same all the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It seemed to be on the line of the road? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you call anybody's attention to it particularly? A. I don't believe I
did.
Q. Did you say anything to the railroad station agent? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether he saw it or not? A. I do not.
Q. Did you see him during the evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he on the platform? A. I don't know that he was before the train came.
Q. Do you know any of the railroad men? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any of them about there? A. None only the agent.
Q. When the train came in did you or anybody else mention the fact that there
had been a light upon this road? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know any reason why the engineer couldn't see that light? A. I know of
no reason.
Q. Was there enough to attract attention? A. I should think there was.
Q. Tell us why you, or some of the rest of you didn't mention it to the agent
before that time. A. I don't know why the rest of them didn't. I didn't think
about it; I didn't suppose it was on the track.
Q. Where did you think it was? A. I supposed it was grass burning along the side
of the track.
Q. You couldn't see the flames at all? A. No, sir.
Q. It seemed to be close to the track? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why did you think it was grass? A. I didn't know there was a bridge along
there.
Q. Did you observe the fire after you left, and before the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you in the same car with your father? A. At the rear door standing up.
Q. Get hurt much? Not much.
Q. Were you going to Niagara? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to look at the bridge and see how much fire there was? A. No,
sir.
Q. How long before you did go to the bridge? A. About two hours.
Q. You were helping the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Gave no attention to the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. The fire was pretty well out when you saw it? A. It was not out.
Q. Were they still working with it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Not blazing any? A. There wasn't much fire there.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Were you standing by your father? A. I was standing by
him when the accident happened.
Q. What car? A. In the first coach.
Q. How long was it after the cars stopped until you went back to the bridge? A.
About two hours.
Q. It was all battered down then was it? A. I didn't notice it then; I was
carrying back the wounded.
By Mr. Steven?—Q. That light that you saw didn't create any serious impression
at all? A. No, sir.
Q. You didn't attempt to determine what it was? A. Not at all.
Q. None of you gave it any serious thought? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. You came to the conclusion that it was burning grass on the
side of the track? A Yes, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Did you look at it all the time? A. No, sir.
Q. How often did you look at it? A. Three or four times.
Q. You saw a light there because you happened to turn that way? A. We were
talking about it.
Q. How long did you keep up that conversation? A. I don't know.
Q. For two hours? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you turn that way to see it after the conversation was stopped? A. To see
if it was there or not.
Q. How many times? A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know how long the train before the train came that you last looked at
it? A. I don't think it was over half an hour.
Q. Have you any means of knowing? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you look at a watch? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers--Q. How long did you and the gentlemen happen to talk
about it? A. I heard some of them say that the agent said the train that was due
from the East was laid over at Gilman until the passenger train went past.
Q. What brought up this conversation? A. Someone was talking to the agent.
Q. Was the light talked about in there? A. I don't know that it was.
Q. How did he come to say that there was no train coming from that direction? A.
I suppose he heard someone talking about it.
Q. Was it a general conversation? A. For a while it was.
Q. Can you see any reason why the engineer couldn't have seen that light? A. Not
without the head-light bothered him.
By Mr. Stevens--Q. Did you hear anyone mention that light to the agent? A. I
didn't hear them talking to him about it. I was outside.
By Commissioner Rogers--Q. Was he within hearing distance when it was talked
about? A. He was in the office.
Q. And that is what brought up the conversation? A. I don't know.
Q. Did you hear him say there was no train coming from that direction? A. Yes,
sir.
By Commissioner Rinaker--Q. How long before the train came from the West, did
you hear the agent say that there was no train coming from the East, that it had
stopped at Gilman? A. It was quite a while before.
Q. But you don't know how he came to say it? A. I think he said it to Mr. Jones.
Q. And you heard him say to him that it had stopped at Gilman. A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sanders, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker,
and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Henry Sanders.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Three and a half miles Southeast of here, on the
county line.
Q. What's your business? A. Farming.
Q. Were you examined before the coroner's jury? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you in Chatsworth on the night of the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. You know where the bridge is? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell us whether you saw any appearance of fire in the vicinity of the bridge
on the night of the 10th. A. I saw a fire in that direction.
Q. Which way do you live from this bridge, and how far? A. A little over a mile
Southeast. I saw the fire from a neighbor's house, Mr. Liston's; providing I saw
the fire. I saw a fire in that direction.
Q. You say you were Southeast about a mile? A. I live right on the county line,
and Mr. Liston lives about a quarter of a mile from my place.
Q. How far from the bridge? A. We call it a mile to the railroad.
Q. You are sixty rods East, and a mile South. Where is Liston's house? A. Forty
rods South of mine.
Q. At what time in the evening did you see this fire? A. If our clock is
correct, between 11 and 11:30.
Q. What is the nature of the ground from Liston's house to the bridge? A. His
house stands on a high place.
Q. You were looking down to the bridge. What did you see? A. I simply saw what
I call a fire.
Q. Did you see a blaze? A. Sometimes it was lighter than others. I only saw it
about 10 or 15 minutes. Mr. Liston and I were talking about it.
Q. Could you see the flame at all? A. I said to Mr. Liston, "We are going to
have some rain, and there is quite a fire over there." He said he saw it all the
way down from Chatsworth.
Q. From what you know of the country there, would you say that fire was on the
bridge? A. I should judge it was the bridge.
Q. And you saw it about 11 o'clock? A. Between 11 and 11:30.
Q. And he said he saw it all the way down from Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear of the accident that night? A. No, sir, I did not. The next
day I told my girls I would take them to town, and we started, and got about
half a mile, up to Mr. Morrison's, and I looked across and saw it.
Q. Do you know what time Mr. Liston left town? A. I do not.
Q. Do you know what time he arrived home? A. He drove in with his machine about
11 o'clock.
Q. You were all visiting at Liston's then? A. Mr. Clay was visiting at my
house. I had Liston's lantern, and I thought he might want it, and I took it
over to him, and when I turned we saw the light.
Q. How did you happen to be at Liston's when Mr. Clay was visiting at your
house? A. I had Liston's lantern, and after he drove by, I took it over to him.
Q. At the time you saw the light did you then have the impression that it was
the bridge? A. I did not, sir.
Q. What did you think it was? A. There is an old house over North, and I thought
it might be that.
By Commissioner Rogers-— Q. You saw the first you knew of it was when you and
Mr. Liston were talking, and you said there is a light over there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any obstruction between the bridge and Mr. Liston's? A. There is a
large hedge.
Q. How high is it? A. I cannot exactly state: it might be six or seven feet
high.
Q. Was the hedge close to you? A. No, sir.
Q. How far was it away? A. It lacked some fifteen or twenty rods of being a
half a mile away.
Q. You thought the light was from an old house over North? A. Yes. sir.
Q. You are satisfied now that it was the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. You didn't locate the fire at the time? A. No, sir.
Q. You don't know now that the fire was the bridge? A. I do not.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Don't you think the light you saw could have been
seen by the engineer on the train? A. I don't know.
Q. If the head-light didn't interfere? A. I don't see why he couldn't.
Q. He ought to have seen it without a headlight? A. I don't know whether he
could have seen it from the hollow down here or not, if the head-light didn't
bother him.
Q. What time did you say you saw this? A. Between 11 and 11:30.
Mr. Tindall, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. August Tindall.
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Tindall? A. A little over half a mile South of the
railroad on the county line.
Q. How far from the bridge that was burned? A. Not much over half a mile.
Q. What is the character of the ground between your place and the bridge, is it
level? A. Very near.
Q. Do you know anything of the accident that happened there on the 10th of this
month? A. I heard of it about 2 o'clock.
Q. Did you before that accident see any appearances of fire in the vicinity of
that bridge? Yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. About 5 o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. What was its appearance then? A. I saw them burning grass along there.
Q. When did you next notice it? A. I didn't notice it after I passed the bridge.
Q. Were you near the fire? A. I crossed the railroad past of the bridge.
Q. How near to the bridge? A. It looked to be about twenty rods from the
crossing; that would be about forty rods from the bridge. The grass was burning
down the railroad.
Q. On which side of the road? A. On the South side.
Q. Did you see any appearances of fire West of the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. That was about 5 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you going home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything of it after you went home? A. No, sir.
Q. Before you heard of the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. Saw no fire? A. No. sir, I didn't look that way. I could hardly have seen it
any way, on account of the trees.
Q. You cannot say you saw any West of the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. You went at 2 o'clock? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Go to the bridge? A. Soon after I got there I did.
Q. Was the fire pretty well out then? A. Yes, sir, but it was still burning a
little.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You were not close to the bridge? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. I understand you to say you saw fire also? A. Yes. sir.
Q. How far from the crossing was this fire? A. Twenty rods from the crossing
towards the bridge.
Q. How far is that from the bridge? A. Forty rods.
Q. Who was burning this grass; the section men? A. I suppose they were.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Were the men still there? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Morris, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Joseph Morris.
Q. Where do you reside? A. About three miles Southeast of here.
Q. Were you before the coroner's jury? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your business? A. Farming.
Q. How long have you been living where you now live? A. A year last March.
Q. Do you know anything of the excursion train which was wrecked? A. I know
there was one.
Q. Were you at home on the evening of the 10th? A. After 5 o'clock I was.
Q. How far is your house from the bridge that burned? A. The house is a little
over half a mile.
Q. What direction? A. Pretty near South.
Q. Is there any object intervening between you and the bridge that would prevent
you from seeing the bridge? A. Corn, etc.
Q. Did you see anything of a fire on the evening of that day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. As early as 8 o'clock in the evening.
Q. Were you close to the bridge that afternoon? A. I crossed the track about
sixty rods East of the bridge.
Q. Did you see any fire then? A. I saw some men setting fire.
Q. Where was that? A. West of the crossing.
Q. How far? A. About forty rods.
Q. Did you observe any smoke nearer the bridge than forty rods? A. It was
between me and the bridge. The stuff was burning West of the crossing.
Q. Did you see any fire in the vicinity of the bridge.? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you nearer than sixty rods to the bridge? A. No. sir.
Q. You thought you saw smoke down that way? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say at 8 o'clock you saw a light? A. Yes. sir.
Q. Did you see a blaze? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you see? A. I thought it was some building on fire.
Q. Did it occur to you that it was a bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Why didn't it? A. The family thought it was too far away for that.
Q. Did you see it later? A. Yes, sir, I saw it between 9 and 10 o'clock; we
talked about the matter, and thought it was too far for the bridge. Some thought
it was Mr. Shaw's house.
Q. How is Mr. Shaw's house situated with respect to the bridge? A. It is
situated on the same line.
Q. You still thought it was his house? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you think? A. We decided that it was at Cullom.
Q. Did the light look far away? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't see any blaze? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you observe it later? A. About half past 9 o'clock.
Q. Was your attention attracted to it again after you went to bed? A. No,
sir.
Q. When did you learn of the accident? A. Between 12 and 1 o'clock.
Q. Did you go immediately? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see that light again? A. I looked out the window and saw it at about
the same place. It looked dimmer and looked to be about the same place.
Q. Could you see them carrying lights around there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to the bridge when you first got there? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you observe how long it was? A. No, sir.
Q. From all you know of the locality, would you say that the light that you saw
in the evening was the bridge? A. I should think so; that is my opinion.
Q. After you got there you helped the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. From the quantity of that light at 8 o'clock and from that on, would you say
an engineer running along on that railroad ought to have seen that light? A. It
looks like he ought to, unless the head-light interfered.
Q. Was it a strong light? A. Tolerably.
Q. Who was with you that afternoon? A. My son and Mr. Tindall and myself had
been over stacking grain.
Mr. Morris, being duly sworn, Was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Jas. W. Morris.
Q. You were with your father on the afternoon and night of the 10th? A. Yes,
sir; at home.
Q. Did you hear his statements? A. I was in the other room talking to some
gentlemen.
Q. Did you hear his statement about the fire, when he first saw it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you agree with him about that? A. I saw it once that he didn't.
Q. What time was that? A. It was after 10 o'clock.
Q. Had you gone to bed before the alarm came that there was an accident? A. No,
sir.
Q. You saw it up to the time of the accident? A. I didn't notice it at all after
10 o'clock until the accident. I knew there was a fire in that direction in the
evening; just before I was going to bed I looked over there and saw the lights.
Q. Did you go over there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Looked at the bridge? No, sir.
Q. You saw it at 8, 9 and 10? A. About 8 o'clock and a little after 10.
Q. Did it occur to you that the bridge was on fire? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Can you see the bridge in the day time? A. Not the bridge.
Q. You could see the cars? A. Yes, sir, those on the track that were not
injured.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. How far is that from where this bridge is? A. About half a
mile.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You think the fire you saw at 10 o'clock was the
bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You went right over to it? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Shaw, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. David E. Shaw.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Two and a half miles a little North and East of Chatsworth.
Q. Are you a farmer? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. Twenty-two years.
Q. How far is your house from the bridge that was burned on the night of the
10th of this month? A. Just ten rods less than half a mile.
Q. What direction? A. A little trifle West of North.
Q. Is there anything between your house and the bridge? A. A high hedge, trees
and a corn field.
Q. Were you near the bridge at any time during the day? A. No, sir.
Q. Was your attention attracted to that bridge prior to the accident? A. Not
until the next morning.
Q. Didn't see any light there until the next morning? A. No, sir.
Q. You went over there the next morning? A. Yes, sir, immediately.
Q. At that time there was no fire at the bridge? A. A little smoke there. I paid
no attention to that.
Q. Did you continue there until the wounded were all out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you leave there? A. In the neighborhood of noon.
Q. You didn't see anything of this fire at all? A. Nothing at all.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. Is there anything that you know about it personally? A. I am
well acquainted with the road, and have been over it many a time. You were
speaking about the engineer not seeing the light out here at the first road
crossing. It is quite high, and the bridge is perhaps six feet lower than this
highway. The man on this train could not see it until he got within 300 yards
of it, for philosophy teaches us that the greater light will absorb the less;
but when he got within 300 yards of it, the light of the bridge being the
greater would absorb the light of the head-light.
Q. Have you any practical experience as to what extent a head-light would
interfere? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you think a head-light could absorb a light 300 rods away? A. No, sir, I
do not.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You think he could have seen it, if it was not for the
head-light? A. I think so.
Mr. Taggart, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. James Taggart, jr.
Q. Were you examined before the coroner's jury? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where do you live? A. Chatsworth.
Q. What's your business? A. Nothing particularly.
Q. What was your business on the 10th of August? A. Working on section 7.
Q. Working there now? A, No, sir.
Q. At that time you were a section hand? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At work that day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You live here in town? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you work that day in the forenoon? A. Right East of here.
Q. How far? A. About half a mile.
Q. What did you do? A. Raised the track and surfaced it.
Q. How long did you work there? A. Until noon.
Q. Did you remove any old ties? A. Removed them, but didn't burn them.
Q. What
did you do with those that you didn't burn? A. Brought them to the section
house.
Q. You moved them after dinner? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is the section house? A.
Here in Chatsworth.
Q. When did you get through with that job? A. About 11:30.
Q.
What did you do then? A. Started to the East end of the section.
Q. How many of
you? A. Five and the boss.
Q. Who were the others? A. Tobenske and James Heald.
Q. You went to the East end of the section? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is that? A.
About four miles East of here.
Q. How far East of the bridge that was burned? A. A mile and a half or two
miles.
Q. How long have you worked on the section? A. About four months.
Q. You think
it was a mile and a half or two miles East of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you know you got to the East end of the section? A. There is a post
there.
Q. Do you know why you went there? A. The boss told us to go there.
Q. Did he go with you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. All together? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do when you got there? A. We got off, and he told us to go back
and build fires. There is a bridge there, and he said, "Go back and burn the
grass on the other side of it."
Q. Is it the one that was burned? A. No, sir.
Q. Go ahead. A. We burned the grass along until it wouldn't burn any more. We
burned two places on the South side, and then we crossed over and burned some on
the North side.
Q. Crossed over where? A. To the North side. I am not certain whether it was
after the first or second place we burned that we crossed over. We burned three
places along the South side.
Q. You remember that you crossed over? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you think at the second place you crossed over? A. I am not sure.
Q. Where was it? A. The first or second.
Q. Had you passed the bridge when you got on the North side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you do any burning on the North side? A. Probably ten or fifteen rods.
Q. Did you burn any old ties? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you set them on fire? A. No, sir.
Q. Were they on fire? A. I don't know.
Q. Did you stay at each place until the fire went out? A. If there was any
danger of fire we would.
Q. Did you stay to see whether the fire was going to go to the ties of the
railroad track? A. No, sir, I supposed the boss would notice.
Q. Did you go away leaving fires still burning? A. Some would be burning, and
some wouldn't.
Q. Went off and left it burning, did you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many places? A. I could not say.
Q. On the South side? A. All along; we worked against the wind.
Q. All the hands go away , or did you leave some one to watch it? A. If there
was any danger, some one would be left.
Q. Did they leave you at any of the places? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you do? A. I fired with the rest of them.
Q. Who did they leave to watch the fire? A. John Tobenske.
Q. Did he stay and put the fire out? A. That was what he was there for.
Q. Did you observe whether he put the fires out? A. I did not.
Q. Did he go on the North side when you crossed over? A. I don't remember
whether he was there or not.
Q. Did you see anybody else watching the fire there? A. We came away from there.
Q. You kept moving West did you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How near did you go with the fire to the bridge that finally burned? A. I
fired within probably five rods East of the bridge.
Q. Did it burn? A. Yes, sir, scattered.
Q. How much of a space was there to burn over at this place? A. It had all been
burned over before; but in some places it was green, and we burned what was left
this time.
Q. Did you succeed in burning that this time? A. It had been cut—I think so.
Q. You know whether it was cut? A. I believe it had been cut; I didn't take any
notice.
Q. Did you burn it? A. Yes, sir; burned within about five rods of the bridge.
Q.
Which side was that? A. South side.
Q. Why do you think it had been cut? A. It
was down.
Q. Was it in piles? A. No, sir.
Q. Dry? A. Yes, sir.
Q.
That came within five rods of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. South side? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did it burn up while you were there? A. It had not gone out yet.
Q. Which way
was the wind? A. South-west.
Q. Pretty strong? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It burned very
slow? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Much of it? A. No, sir.
Q. How near to the railroad did it come? A. Right on the bank.
Q. Did you burn
any at the bridge? A. A narrow strip that came along the gully there.
Q. Where was that? A. Right at the bridge. The grass had been cut away from the
bridge, and we fired that grass along in the ditch. That was out before we left.
Q. Was it green? A. It was dry.
Q. Right in the branch? A. Right along the edge of the ditch.
Q. What do you mean by the ditch? A. It is the one the bridge is over.
Q. You say you burned grass near that? A. About six feet away from the bridge.
Q. Which way? A. South and West.
Q. Right in the gully? A. Right along the West bank of it.
Q. You burned it right there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Within six feet of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. West of the bridge? A. Right South of the bridge.
Q. Right on the bank of the ditch? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And six feet from the bridge? A. About that.
Q. Did you burn any further West than that? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you burn any up on the edge of the bank? A. No, sir.
Q. Had that been burned before? A. I think it had.
Q. Do you know when it was burned? A. No, sir.
Q. Hadn't you been at work with the section men? A. Yes, sir, they had a man out
there firing it.
Q. Didn't they burn some further West than that? A. Not that day.
Q. That was on the 10th? A. Yes, sir.
Q. All that you burned in the vicinity of the bridge was on the West bank and
South of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did that go out while you were there? A. It smoldered out.
Q. Did it make much of a flame when it burned? A. No, sir.
Q. Why? A. Not enough of it.
Q. Was it short? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That didn't go nearer than six feet of the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. What time did you leave there? A. About half past 5 o'clock.
Q. It didn't flame up much? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you observe the bridge to see whether it was on fire? A. No, sir.
Q. If it had been, would you have observed it? A. I don't know whether I would
or not; I was blinded with smoke.
Q. Would the smoke blind you much? A. Yes, sir, the smoke was blowing at the
side of the bridge.
Q. You didn't burn far enough West to drive it toward the bridge. Do you mean
that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you tell us whether that fire you set that afternoon communicated to that
bridge? A. I don't think it could; the grass had been cut away from the bridge.
Q. Did the fire flame up high? A. Not much.
Q. How high? A. Catch, and go right
out again.
Q. And you think the wind drove it parallel with the road? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I
thought you said it drove it to the bridge. Do you mean to say that the fire blew
to the East side of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You stayed there until that went out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you mean to say the fire communicated from that? A. I think it did not.
Q. Did you stay there as long as the rest of them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was the
boss when you were burning that? A. Walking along the railroad.
Q. Was Tobenske there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who set fire to it? A. I don't know.
Q. Did you? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you see it burn? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That's as far West as that fire was set that day? A. The section men didn't
set any that I know of.
Q. Where was the hand car when that was burning? A. About fifty feet West of the
bridge.
Q. Where did you get on the hand car? A. Right there.
Q. Who was at the
bridge last? A. I could not tell you.
Q. Were you there last? A. I don't know as
I was.
Q. Was anybody else on the hand car when you got hold of it? A. They all came
at once. The boss said there was no use to burn the grass West of the bridge,
because there was not enough of it.
Q. Did you all get aboard at the same time? A. We all got aboard as soon as we
could; we all went up together.
Q. All got to the hand car about the same time? A. I was the first or second
one.
Q. Did you get on before the rest? A. One or two before me. I think.
Q. Where was Johnny, was he on? A. No, sir.
Q. When did he get aboard? A. After I
did.
Q. How long? A. He told us to come on, and we got on as quick as we could.
Q. Did you see Johnny at the time you started? A. I didn't notice him.
Q. Do you
know where he was? A. At the car.
Q. When you got there? A. I cannot tell which
was there first.
Q. Do you know where Johnny was when you got there? A. He was
there with us.
Q. And you tell us that there is no mistake, that there was no fire set further
West? A. I am positive about that.
Q. Where did you go when you got on the car? A. The boss said there was
some railroad iron, to take it, and we stopped twice.
Q. Did you notice the time you started from the bridge? A. No, sir, I did
not.
Q. What time did you get to Chatsworth? A. Probably five minutes before 6
o'clock.
Q. Did you go West of Chatsworth that day? A. I got off here.
Q. Did the cargo west? A. Yes, sir, went to the car house.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. From what direction was the wind blowing? A. From the
Southwest.
Q. Then I understand you to say that the grass you burned was on the West side
of the ditch? A. Yes, sir, right along the West bank.
Q. Would that blow the smoke right square against the bridge? A. The bridge is
very short.
Q. The road runs right past—that ditch is right North and South—what
direction would the smoke go? A. Northeast.
Q. Wouldn't it naturally drive the smoke right against the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say the smoke was so thick that you cannot exactly state about the
bridge? A. I meant by that, that I was blinded by smoke before that.
Q. You said you could not tell because there was so much smoke. A. I did not
understand it that way.
Q. The bridge was very dry, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Wouldn't a very little spark set fire to the bridge after you went away? A.
It might.
Q. You burned within six feet of the bridge, about the last thing you did? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Then you went to work and gathered up some iron before coming home? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. You didn't burn about 65 or 75 feet West of the bridge? A. No, sir, that
little strip was all we burned that afternoon West of the bridge.
Q. The smoke would strike against the East end of the bridge? A. There wasn't
much smoke to it.
Q. Had that grass been cut off? A. I think it was just dry grass.
Q. What kind of grass was it? A. Blue grass.
Q. Are you well acquainted with the different kinds of grass? A. Tolerably.
By Commissioner Rinaker— Q. Are you sure that fire on that West bank was set the
10th of August? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Think that's the day? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. How did you set it on fire—what did you take? A. A
large bundle of dry weeds.
Q. And then dropped it in different places? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were aiming to set it on the South side so it couldn't do any harm by
running further North? A. It couldn't get across the railroad.
Q. Wasn't it a fact that you were looking more to getting the grass burned off,
than to putting the fire out? A. When there is a field where the fire could get
into, we would stay until it was out.
Q. Because if it had got across into that stubble it might have done some
damage? A. That was on the South side.
Q. But you don't know whether it was cut off, or was standing up? A. I think it
was dry grass and just wilted down.
Q. When the boss said we will quit, you all went away together? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't need much coaxing to go home? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Do you know how many telegraph poles there were
between the bridge and the fire East of the bridge? A. I fired within about five
rods of the bridge.
Q. How many telegraph poles would that cover? A. It would be between two I
think.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Do the ties sometimes get on fire? A. Once in a while.
Q. Did you notice any on fire that afternoon? A. No. sir, I did not.
By Mr.
Stevens—Q. You say you set the last fire about five rods East of the bridge on
the South side? A. That's the last I set.
Q. In a cut or a fill? A. Fill I think, I am not certain.
Q. Do you know whether it was in the fill? A. It was in the low land I think.
Q. How much West of the out? A. I cannot say.
Q. Tell as nearly as you can. A. Probably five rods this side of the cut.
Q. Did
you set fire to the South bank of that cut, on the South side of the railroad?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And still further towards the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. How many places did you set fire to that day? A. I think four
different places.
Q. Between the East end of your section and this bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How
many of you were there? A. Five men and the boss.
Q. You say when you lit a
fire, and you thought there was any danger, you would stay and watch it ? A. One
man would.
Q. If there was no danger, then you would pass on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were those
your directions? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your directions were to watch it in that way? A. He would tell us whether to
watch it.
Q. He (the boss) would tell you if there was no danger to pass on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that spoken of at the time? A. I think at two different places he left a
man.
Q. Was that spoken of? A. I don't think it was.
Q. What do you say was the reason he left them there to watch it? A. I suppose
that was what he meant.
Q. Was that matter spoken of? A. He didn't say that, but I supposed that was
what it was for. He would say that ground is plowed, there is no danger.
Q. Did he give any of you any directions in reference to guarding any fires,
other than the fields? A. No, sir; if he thought there was any danger, he would
tell us.
Q. Did he give you any directions at any time in reference to the
bridges? A. No, sir, I don't think he did.
Q. There was nothing said on that subject at that time? A. No, sir.
Q. You say
the last that you burned was five rods from the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who
burned the one near the bridge in the hollow? A. I cannot say, but I think it
was Tobenske.
Q. Are you sure you didn't? A. Yes, sir, I am pretty sure.
Q. You saw someone
light the grass? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did he light it with? A. A bundle of dry
weeds.
Q. What time was that? A. About half past 5.
Q. How long before quitting time? A. About thirty-five minutes or half an hour.
Q. How long did you see it burning? A. I cannot say.
Q. Why can't you say? A. I don't recollect about it. There was a fire there, and
he spoke to us and said there's no use of burning that.
Q. You saw it awhile? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How can you tell then that it was out when you left? A. It would be burning
if it wasn't out.
Q. Did you look particularly to see whether it was burning or not? A. I cast a
glance at it.
Q. You didn't see anybody else looking at it? A. No, sir.
Q. How long before you cast this glance did you see it burning? A. I don't
remember about that.
Q. How long after you cast this glance was it when he told you to come on? A. I don't remember.
Q. Why? A. I took no memorandum of it.
Q. You didn't take a memorandum of the other things? A. I gave it as near as I
could recollect.
Q. How soon after he said come on, that you went? A. He said, "Come on boys,"
and that was all there was of it.
Q. And when he said come, you all went home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was he? A. Standing at the hand car.
Q. Had he been down there at any time? A. I don't think he had.
Q. Giving directions from the hand car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then all you know is, that you didn't see any fire at the bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. And the others didn't see any, so far as you know? A. I don't know.
Q. There was no close examination made by anybody? A. No, sir. I don't think
there was.
Q. Why wasn't there? A. I cannot say.
Q. You had set fire within six feet of this bridge, and without making any
further examination you left it there in that condition? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you put out any fires that day? A. I think Tobenske put out two.
Q. How many did you leave burning? A. Left them all burning; we left a man
there to watch them.
Q. Do you know Tobenske put out two? A. He says he did.
Q. You say you burned how many? A. Four.
Q. Then you left two burning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was that other one? A. The first one we built, and then the last one.
Q. The first one and then the one at the bridge? A. I am not sure about
the first one.
Q. Where were these two that were put out? A. I don't know whether he put them
out or not; he was left there to watch.
Q. Where were they? A. One was the second one.
Q. How far from the bridge? A. Away East of the bridge.
Q. Where was the other one? A. I don't remember about that.
Q. How near was it to the one that was five rods from the bridge? A. I don't
know.
Q. The fire at the bridge was not put out by anybody, and nobody was put there
to watch it? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. The fire at the bridge was fired by a bundle of
straw? A. I suppose it was.
Q. There was nobody left to watch it? A. No, sir.
Q. That bundle of straw would make something of a fire wouldn't it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long before you left did you set this fire? A. Probably five minutes.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Didn't you say it was out? A. As far as I could see.
Q. Do you mean to say you left a fire at the bridge? A. It was out as far as I
could see.
Q. Was it burning when you looked at it last? A. It was not blazing or
anything.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Where were you when Tobenske came up with you just before you
started for home? A. We had just begun firing West of the county line.
Q. Was Coughlin, the section foreman, away from the gang that day? A. Not long;
probably five, ten or fifteen minutes.
Q. Was he on the West end of his section that day? A. I don't think he was.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. He was with them on the East end? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Heald, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. James Heald.
Q. Where do you live? A. Chatsworth.
Q.
How long? A. Ever since I can remember.
Q. How old are you? A. Nineteen.
Q.
What's your business? A. Anything I can get to do.
Q. How long have you worked on the railroad? A. From about the 10th of April.
Q. This year? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what capacity? A. Section hand.
Q. Under whom? A. Mr. Coughlin.
Q. Were you at work on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was Coughlin with you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do that day? A. We worked just between here and the whistling
post East of town.
Q. How far is the whistling post? A. One half mile I suppose.
Q. What were you doing? A. Raising the track.
Q. Have any fire? A. Not that I remember of.
Q. How long did you work there, all forenoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do in the afternoon? A. Went to the East end of the section.
Q. What time did you start? A. I think between 1 and 2 o'clock.
Q. Did you do anything else after dinner before going to the East end of the
section? A. Not that I remember of. We hauled a lot of old ties to the section
house.
Q. What did you do when you got the East end? A. We went within about 50 feet of
the section post, and Mr. Coughlin told us to come back this way and make fires
on the bank.
Q. Was anybody else there? A. Piper City men.
Q. Was the road master there? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see him that afternoon? A. Some of the men did, but I didn't.
Q. Did he stop coming back? A. He was going East.
Q. What time was that? A. Between 4 and 5 o'clock.
Q. Why didn't you see him? A. I wasn't looking for him.
Q. Did he stop? A. No, sir.
Q. How many fires did you set? A. Four or five.
Q. Where were they? A. All the way from about a quarter of a mile West of the
section post to the bridge where the wreck was, and about sixteen feet this
side.
Q. Where was that? A. West bank of the ditch, South of the track.
Q. The ditch runs under the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It would not be sixteen feet West of the ditch? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Does the bank cover sixteen feet? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you burn sixteen feet West of the bank? A. Something near that, on the
West side of the ditch.
Q. You got as far West as sixteen feet? A. Something near that.
Q. Did you burn up to the bridge? A. Probably within six or ten feet.
Q. How wide a space? A. The space that I set was probably two feet wide, after it
was mowed down.
Q. It burned? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To within six feet of the bridge? A. Somewhere near that.
Q. Make much of a flame? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you burn any more West of the bridge? A. Not further than that windrow.
Q. Been mowed off, had it ? A. Yes, sir, close to the ground; probably four
inches.
Q. You just burned this windrow? A. That's what I set fire to.
Q. Who was with you? A. The section men.
Q. You made a fire on the West bank of this ditch, sixteen feet West of the
bridge, and it burned towards the bridge to within six or ten feet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was quite a pile of grass? A. It was tall slough grass, and it seems to
have stood pretty thin on the ground.
Q. Do you mean one or two swaths? A. Probably two.
Q. Didn't they flame up pretty lively? A. There wasn't much of a fire there.
Q. Did it blaze three feet high? A. Probably.
Q. How many feet long? A. Probably ten.
Q. Very dry? A. Seemed to be.
Q. Was the wind blowing at that time? A. Not very strong.
Q. From the Southwest? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Towards the bridge? A. Towards the East end of the bridge,
Q. On the South side? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you stay there after you set fire to it? A. About five minutes.
Q. Did it burn up in five minutes? A. I don't think there was any blaze West of
the bridge when we left.
Q. Is that as far West as you got that day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It went within six feet of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't you have any fire further West than that? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't you have one thirty or forty yards West of that? A. No, sir.
Q. Wasn't it ten yards West of that? A. No, sir.
Q. How near was that fire that was East of the bridge, to the bridge? A. It must
have been within sixteen or twenty feet.
Q. Hadn't that all been burned off before? A. There had been patches that
wouldn't burn, and we left them.
Q. You say that was exactly what took place there? A. As near as I can remember.
Q. When were you before the coroner's jury? A. I think it was the next Tuesday
after the wreck.
Q. What day of the month was that? A. About the 16th.
Q. You quit work on the 14th? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any trouble with anybody connected with the railroad? A. No,
sir.
Q. Why did you quit on the 14th? A. Because I knew I would probably swear
against the section foreman, and he and I couldn't get along, and I was sick of
the work any how.
Q. Do you know when the section foreman was sworn? A. I think it was the day
after the wreck.
Q. Was he sworn the day you were? A. No. sir, he was in Peoria that day.
Q. Had he been sworn before that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you heard his evidence? A. No, sir.
Q. Why did you think you would differ? A. From what he had said to me about it.
Q. Did you have much of a talk? A. He spoke something about the county line,
and he said something about giving him away.
Q. What did he say about the county line? A. I don't know; I didn't understand
him.
Q. What did he say about the county line? A. I didn't understand him—didn't
understand what he did say. I understood "county line."
Q. What did he say about giving him away? A. "Don't give me away."
Q. What had you said to him about it? A. I hadn't said anything to him about it.
Q. Did you and he talk about what he had testified to? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you say anything to him about what you would testify to? A. Not at that
time.
Q. At any time? A. Not before he said that.
Q. What was the conversation in which this was brought up? A. He called
me to one side the second day after the wreck, and said just what I told
you—"county line" and "don't give me away."
Q. Had you intimated to him anything that you was going to say? A. No, sir.
Q. What had he said? A. I heard that he had sworn there was no fire West of the
county line.
Q. Had you and he had any trouble before this conversation? A. Nothing.
Q. And he took you out to one side and said something about "county line and
don't give me away?" A. Yes. sir.
Q. And you didn't say anything to him? A. No, sir.
Q. And he said nothing more to you? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you talk about the fire? A. Not then.
Q. At any time? A. Not until I was before the coroner's jury.
Q. Did you see him that morning? A I saw him in the forenoon, and took a
dispatch to him.
Q. What then? A. He said he wanted me to go to Peoria.
Q. Why didn't you go? A. I didn't care to go over there: and spend my money.
Q. Would you have to spend money? A. I supposed I would have to eat over there.
Q. Did you understand that you would have to buy your victuals? A. I supposed
so.
Q. You had already quit then? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you say anything to Ennis about your expenses? A. I didn't see him at
all, until after I told him I wouldn't go.
Q. Did you and Coughlin have any talk about your going at all? A. Yes, sir,
spoke something of it.
Q. Why didn't you go? A. Because I didn't want to go and spend my money.
Q. Why? A. I didn't care to spend three or four dollars.
Q. Did he ask you not to go? A. No, sir; he asked me how I remembered about the
fire, and I told him just as I told you.
Q. He said nothing more? A. No, sir.
Q. The reason you didn't go was because you didn't want to spend your money? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did the other section hands go? A. Three of them did.
Q. Do you know why the
other one didn't go? A. No, sir.
Q. Had you and he talked about not going? A. I had asked him if he was going,
and he said no; he wasn't going up there and pay his expenses.
Q. Did you say anything to Ennis—you didn't see Ennis? A. Not until the train
came in.
Q. Did you tell him then why you wouldn't go? A. I didn't speak to him at all.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Don't you suppose that he (Coughlin) meant to locate
the fire East of the county line? A. I suppose that was it.
Q. And he didn't want you to locate the fire near the bridge? Something like
that; he didn't say so.
Q. He said not to give him away? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In regard to these fires near the bridge, you say the grass had been cut
before—about how long? A. About two days.
Q. It was not a large crop of grass? A. It was rather light.
Q. Was the road
boss with you at the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You left together? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the last fire you set that day? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. Do you know whether this section boss spoke to any of the
other section men? A. Mr. Taggart told me he had talked to him about it, but
didn't tell me what he said.
Q. You don't know whether he had spoken to any of the other men or not? A. No,
sir.
Q. I understand you to say that you left it about five minutes after you set
fire to it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was simply smoldering when you left it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What caused you to leave it in that way? A. The foreman told us to leave it.
Q. He told you to set that windrow? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And five minutes after that he commanded you to get on the hand car and go
into town? A. He said, "Come on, boys, I don't think that will do any harm."
Q.
Did you put out any of the fires that you built that afternoon? A. One man was
left to watch them.
Q. Who was that? A. Tobenske.
Q. He was left in charge because there was danger of them getting into the
field? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don't know whether he put them out or not? A. He came up and said one of
them came pretty near getting into the field, but he put it out.
Q. Did anybody
put that fire out at the bridge? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Was that windrow
parallel with the track? A. It was East and West.
Q. How near to the ties? A. Probably ten or fifteen feet.
Q. Running parallel
with the road? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. You say it burned within six feet of the bridge? Some where
near that.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. How near was the end of that windrow to the Southwest corner
of the bridge? A. About six feet.
Q. Was there any grass nearer the bridge than that ? A. I don't think there was.
By Mr. Niehaus—Q. Had it been cleared away with shovels? A. Yes, sir.
Q. There may have been some combustible stuff around there? A. I didn't notice
any.
Q. Did you look to see? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Stevens—Q. Did Coughlin say anything to you about not caring whether he
went to Peoria or not? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Didn't it blow the blaze right in the direction of the
bridge? A. I think it would; about over the East end of the bridge.
Q. The grass was a little dry? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Don't you consider it dangerous to burn grass so near the bridge? A. I
should think it was.
Submitted by your Host
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Copyright © Janine Crandell
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Updated September 12, 2005