Chatsworth Train Accident
August 10, 1887

TESTIMONY.

Peoria, Illinois, August 17, 1887...continued.

NATHANIEL H. TUCKER.

Mr. Tucker, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you live, Mr. Tucker? A. In Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. Superintendent of the American Glucose Company.
Q. Were you aboard the train that was wrecked? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were in the second sleeper? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you see after the accident? A. I was just about getting into the bunk when I felt the jar, and Mr. Naegle said something was the matter, but I thought we were all right. I looked out and I saw four, five or six men coming directly towards the train in the opposite direction from the one in which we were going. I looked for the fire and it kept coming up in gushes. I was in my under­clothes and I went back to dress myself, and told the people in the car that we had plenty of time to dress ourselves and not to get excited. We started in at the rear end and uncoupled the coaches, and then started to work on the fire. After that I went back to help carry the dead and crippled to the train. I saw a man with a little child and it made me sick, and then I started back to the coaches to carry blankets and pillows, and stayed there until the first train went back to Chatsworth, and we came out again at daylight and stayed there until the time to start to Peoria about 11 or 11:30.
Q. Were you with Mr. Naegle? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you act together there pretty much? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Your statements agree with his in detail? A. Yes, sir, as far as I know.
Q. Did you observe any robbery? A. No, sir, not during the night.
Q. Did you see any valises that had been cut open? A. Yes, sir, I did. I saw them take out in one particular spot three or four that had their pockets turned wrong side out. I saw one or two with portions of a watch chain, and the watch gone. I saw several pocket-books and little valises turned inside out and nothing in them.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. What sort of looking people were those that you first saw? A. I cannot describe them. They were coming in the opposite direction from the one in which the train was going. They were on the West side of the ravine. It could not possibly have been over 15 seconds. There seemed to be five or six of them in a gang.
Q. Were they talking? A. I cannot say.
Q. You went back into the car again? Yes, sir, and dressed myself.
Q. They couldn't have had time to have gotten out of the wreck? A. I think it is almost impossible. I think it would have been impossible for them to have been in the wreck and get out and come in that direction within that space of time.
Q. When you saw them were they on the West side of the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your opinion as to who they were? A. I didn't form any opinion then, but after that I made up my mind that it was done intentionally.
Q. Your impression is that they were the men that caused it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything more of them? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you stay about the wreck there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you didn't see them any more? A. No sir, not that I know of.
Q. You went out of the car before dressing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you get out before Mr. Naegle? A. No, sir, he was out first.
Q. You saw these men when you first went out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. By Commissioner Rogers—Q. At the same time you saw them, they saw you —couldn't they have gotten out just as quick? A. No. sir.
Q. Why not? A. Too far away.
Q. Couldn't have gotten out just as quick? A. Not in my judgment.
Q. They were coming from towards the wrecked cars? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Weren't there a good many men on the sleeping cars that had not gone to bed? A. No, sir.
Q. You mean the car you were on? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Mightn't they have been men that fell out of the coaches? A. I don't think they had time to get out.
Q. How long was it after the crash? A. I stepped on the ladder and down on the floor; I cannot state exactly, it might have been four or five seconds. I thought everybody was dead, as I didn't hear a sound.

A. N. MORTON.

Mr. Morton, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Morton? A. Peoria.
Q. What's your business? A. I am traveling for a Kansas land syndicate.
Q. Were you aboard the excursion train that was wrecked? A. Yes, sir, I was in section 4 of the sleeper Tunis.
Q. Were you awake when the accident occurred? A Yes, sir.
Q. What first attracted your attention? A. The movement of the car.
Q. Did you look out immediately? A. Yes, sir; we had to wait until everybody ahead of us got out.
Q. You were in what berth? A. Four.
Q. When you got out what did you first give attention to? A. I went to the fire.
Q. Did you assist in putting it out? A. I did what I could.
Q. What did you do? A. Threw dirt on it.
Q. Did you continue until the fire was subdued? A. No, sir, I worked until I was exhausted, and then I went over to where the wounded were, but I could not assist any in my condition, and then I tried to get some water; I took the water out of the sleepers and poured that on, and then I tried to quiet my wife down.
Q. You didn't give any further attention to the wounded? A. No, sir, nothing more, only getting blankets, etc.
Q. You carried blankets? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you get them? A. I took them out of the sleepers.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Until the sleepers went in.
Q. To what extent was the bridge burned when you first gave attention to it? A. I didn't make any note of it. It was about burned up, and I helped to put out what was remaining.
Q. Were the ties all down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was the fire with respect to the ends of the bridge? A. The piling, caps and stringers were on fire.
Q. What do you call the stringers? The stringers are those timbers right under the ties.
Q. Were they on fire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had they burned down? A. I think they had
Q. Were there any trucks in this fire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you stop at Chatsworth? A. I assisted in sending telegrams; I helped the operator.
Q. How long did you stay there? A. Until the first train came in; probably 11 o'clock.
Q. Did you see Dr. Will? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was taking care of the wounded? A. Yes, sir, he was very active.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You say you helped put the fire out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do about putting out the fire? A. I chopped the dirt so we could get it in a bucket to pour on the fire; the dirt was very dry.
Q. How did they apply the dirt? A. Mr. VanSant stood on the embankment and threw it down.
Q. Mr. Armstrong was there and did all he could? A. Yes, sir.

JOSEPH HOUGHTON.

Mr. Houghton, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. What is your business Mr. Houghton? A. Brakeman and train baggageman for the T., P. & W.
Q. Were you that, on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You heard of this accident? A. Yes, sir, I was on the train.
Q. Were you the baggageman? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you awake when the accident happened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car were you in? A. The baggage car; the first car next to the engine.
Q. What first attracted your attention to the accident? Did you see anything, before the accident happened, that alarmed you? A. A short distance from Chatsworth I stepped to the South door of the car and looked ahead and saw a fire.
Q. How far from the bridge? A. I cannot say. I paid no attention to it, being accustomed to seeing fire along the road.
Q. Where was that fire with respect to the track? A. It didn't seem to be in the middle of the track; it seemed to be more on the South side.
Q. How far from the track? A. I cannot tell. It appeared to be near, but of course I couldn't tell as to distance.
Q. That didn't excite your attention? A. No, sir.
Q. What did attract your attention? A. I rode for a short distance and then stepped to the door again, and this time we were right onto the fire.
Q. Was there any whistle blown? A. No, sir. I realized that something was about to happen.
Q. What made you think something was about to happen? A. I don't know, sir.
Q. Was there any brake applied to the train? A. No, sir, no sensation at all. I had an impression that something was about to happen.
Q. What did you do? A. I caught hold of the guards across the window, and then the crash came. After the crash I was not fastened, but was loose, and there was a crack made between the roof and the side of the car, and I crawled out.
Q. What space of time elapsed between the time you caught the rods and getting out? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. Did the car turn over? A. Yes, sir, on its side.
Q. And then you saw this crack? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got out what did you see—what attracted your attention? A. There was nothing to be seen. When I got out I saw my need of a light, and I slipped down on the ground and went around to the head end of the baggage car, and then I found a hole and crawled in; I got a match and lit it, and the first thing I saw was my lantern. I got it and went out the same way I came in, and went towards the head end of the train. What first attracted my attention were the cries of Mrs. Parker.
Q. She was in Mr. Armstrong's car? A. Yes, sir. I assisted there as long as I could—I assisted until she was gotten out. It occupied quite a space of time getting her out, and from the bruises and injuries I had received my right arm became paralyzed. After that I went about giving drink to the wounded and holding my lantern.
Q. Did you continue at that until the wounded were all taken care of? A. Yes, sir, until it began to rain. I was so worn out that I got shelter until the rain was over, and then I went out again.
Q. Where did you find shelter? A. In the corner of the roof of the baggage car.
Q. How far was your car from the bridge? A. I should judge that it was about 120 feet.
Q. How far from the second engine? A. It rested on the drivers of the second engine.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. When you looked out the side of the car the second time did you still see the light? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did it seem to be? A. Right across the track where the bridge was.
Q. You thought something was going to happen from that fire did you? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Did you say you saw a light? A. I saw a light that I took to be a fire.
Q. How far from the bridge? A. I cannot tell.
Q. How far was the train from the bridge? A. I cannot tell; I cannot give an idea.
Q. Was it a quarter of a mile? A. I don't know; I didn't pay enough attention to it to tell how far it was.
Q. How long do you think it was before you got to the bridge? A. It is impossible to give any time.
Q. Were you on the down grade? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long is that grade? A. I don't know.
Q. Was it at Chatsworth? A. No, sir.
Q. How long after you left Chatsworth? A. I cannot say.
Q. Do you think it was halfway? A. I cannot tell.
Q. You saw it twice before you got there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long between the times you saw was it? A. I told you that I could not tell.
Q. You can give no idea at all? A. Not now.
Q. Were you looking out of the window? A. I was looking out of the door.
Q. What car were you in? A. The baggage car.
Q. What did it look like? A. It didn't look like a head-light. I didn't study much as to what it was. I just saw it and paid no attention to it. The cinders were flying so that you couldn't look ahead very long.
Q. Did it seem to be right on the track? A. It seemed to be near the track.
Q. The road is straight there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then you saw it again? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it because you thought there might be danger that you looked again? A. No, sir.
Q. You said nothing to anybody about it? A. There was nobody there to say anything to about it. I probably wouldn't if there had been any person there; it was nothing unusual.
Q. Do you think now that was the fire you saw? A. Yes, sir; because after the accident I saw no other fire, but there might have been one further West.
Q. The engineer was in a position to see it better than you? A. Yes, sir. If he saw it he probably thought as I did.
Q. How long do you think it took to run from Chatsworth down to the bridge? A. I do not know.
Q. What is the distance? A. They say it is a little over two miles.
Q. You think now that it was the bridge on fire that you saw? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you cannot say how far you were from the bridge when you first saw it? A. No. sir, because I didn't study it as to distance or locality.
Q. Do you think you saw the fire five minutes before the accident happened? A. I don't know, sir.
Q. How long was it before you got out of the car? A. I cannot answer that.
Q. Was anybody out when you got out? Did you see anybody around there? A. Two men got out of the wreck about the same time I did, and nearly the same place. They came up onto the top of the baggage car. They were the first I saw.
Q. It was not long until a great many were out? A. A very short time.

W. R. KIRCHOFF.

Mr. Kirchoff, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you live? A. In Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. Brakeman for the T., P. & W.
Q. Do you know anything of the accident that happened on the night of the 10th of this month to a train of the T., P. & W. Ry.? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you aboard the train? A. I was. That night I had charge of chair car No. 14.
Q. You had to attend to the brakes? A. Yes, sir, I assisted the rest.
Q. Were you awake when the accident happened? I was.
Q. Where were you when it happened? A. I was about three seats back, and I had a bucket of water that I was going to give some ladies to drink. The night was quite warm and all the water had been used out of the tank, and I had gotten off at Chatsworth and got a bucket of water.
Q. Was there anything to attract your attention? A. Nothing whatever before the crash came. I felt it, but I thought we were broken in two, and I made the remark that we were broken in two.
Q. Where was your car? A. In the middle of the train.
Q. What was there between you and the sleeper? A. Another chair car.
Q. How long was it after you said the train was broken in two until it stopped? A. About three seconds.
Q. Did you get hurt? A. Yes, sir, I was hurt so I could not do anything at all. I didn't know what had happened until three hours afterwards; I didn't know whether it was a collision or what it was.
Q. You took no part in the proceedings? A. I was just lying there in the hedge hearing them cry for help.
Q. You were in a sort of an unconscious condition? A. Yes, sir, I was gotten out, and taken to Piper City.
Q. What did you do there? A. I was taken to the town hall and was lying around there. There were 57 there at one time.
Q. Were you able to do anything there? A. No, sir, I was not; my ankle was sprained and my shoulder hurt.
Q. Did you go to Piper City? A. I was taken there.
Q. Were there any dead there? A. None at all before I left.
Q. Where did you go from Piper City? A. I stayed there until Thursday night and then I went over to the depot and the engineer was just getting his orders, and I rode down to the wreck, and I had a farmer take me to Chatsworth, and then I came on to Peoria.
Q. How long were you at the wreck? A. Just walked by.

N. SHADBOLT.

Mr. Shadbolt, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. Claim agent for the T., P. & W. Railroad.
Q. Do you know anything about this accident that happened? A. No, sir, I do not; I was not there.
Q. Are you a civil engineer? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you make a profile of any part of this road lately? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What part? A. From the Chatsworth depot to the county line between Livings and Ford counties.
Q. Do you know where the bridge was at which the accident happened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Does this give the profile there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how far East of there? A. One thousand feet East of the bridge.
Q. Does that point East of the bridge reach the highest ground? A. It does not.
Q. Do you know where the tender of the first engine was thrown off? A. No, sir.
Q. You don't know whether you have gone that far East or not? A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. You have made a profile. Does it correctly represent it? A. It does to the best of my ability.
Q. Does it represent the inequalities of the ground? A. Just the grade.
Q. How much higher is Chatsworth than the bridge? A. 37 feet and 62-100.
Q. What is the character of the track between Chatsworth and the bridge with respect to elevations? Are there any? A. Yes, sir, they are all along.
Q. Is there any point between Chatsworth and the bridge that is higher than Chatsworth? A. At 400 feet East of the depot there is a point that is 3 feet higher than at the depot.
Q. How much is the next depression going East? A. 18 and 3-10 feet below the level of the Chatsworth depot.
Q. What distance is that point from the depot? A. 3,100 feet. The next highest point is 7 and 7-100 feet below the depot at Chatsworth.
Q. How far is that from the depot? A. 4,400 feet.
Q. What is the next depression from the level at Chatsworth? A. 11 feet below.
Q. How far from Chatsworth is that? A. 5,100 feet.
Q. What is the next elevation? A. 8 feet below the point at Chatsworth.
Q. How far from Chatsworth is that? A. 5,500 feet.
Q. What is the next depression? A. 25 and 2-10 feet below the level at Chatsworth.
Q. How far is that from Chatsworth? A. 8,300 feet.
Q. What is the next elevation? A. 17 and 8-10 feet below Chatsworth, and 9,200 feet from Chatsworth
Q. What is the next depression? A. 31 feet below Chatsworth, and the distance is 11,ooo feet from Chatsworth.
Q. What is the next elevation? 27 and 7-10 feet below Chatsworth, and the distance is 11,900 feet.
Q. What is the next depression? A. 37 and 7-10 feet below Chatsworth, and the distance is 13,524 feet.
Q. The highest point between Chatsworth and the bridge is an elevation of 3 feet? A. Yes, sir, right in the yard at Chatsworth.
Q. Is the depot within the town of Chatsworth on about the same level with the rest of the town? A. This point is the highest point in Chatsworth; that's 400 feet East of the depot.
Q. There is no cut there? A. In Chatsworth, I don't think there is.
Q. Are there any cuts between there and the bridge? A. Yes, sir, there is a cut at each elevation.
Q. What is the depth of the cuts? A. The first one is about 4 feet.
Q. This elevation that you have given us as 3 feet above the track at the depot—at that point is there a cut? A. If any, it is very slight
Q. At the next point on, is there any cut there? A. About 4 feet.
Q How much of a cut is there at any other point between there and the bridge? A. None that will exceed 4 feet between there and the bridge, I should think.
Q. Then a line drawn from Chatsworth to the bridge would descend 37 feet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. A person standing on the track at Chatsworth would have no obstruction between him and a light rising on the track at the bridge? A. It would depend upon how high he could see that light.
Q. If it were a little cloudy it would reflect the light? A. I should say it would.
Q. Do you know the character of the ground between the bridge and Piper City? A. After you get over the elevation East of the county line it is almost a dead level.
Q. How much is that elevation East of the county line? Does this profile show it? A. No, sir, but I can tell you very closely I think. The elevation West of the bridge and the one East of the county line are very nearly on the same level.
Q. How far is that point from the bridge—that elevation East of the county line? A. About 1,600 feet.
Q. Is the track straight from the bridge to Piper City? A. It is.
Q. And that elevation above the bridge would be how much? A. 10 feet. The bridge is below that elevation.
Q. It is in a depression of about 10 feet? A. Yes, sir.
Q. One standing at Piper City would be about on a level with this elevation East of the bridge? A. I think he would be below a level.
Q. This elevation then is followed by a depression? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would this elevation East of the bridge be 10 feet above Piper City? A. I should think it would.
Q. That country from Chatsworth to the bridge, and from the bridge to Piper City is prairie? A. Yes, sir, all of it.
Q. Are there any cuts between this elevation you have mentioned East of the county line and Piper City? A. I don't recollect of any; I don't think there is.
Q. What is the height of the platform at Chatsworth? A. About 16 inches.
Q. What is the height of the platform at Piper City? A. About 16 inches.

E. A. VANSANT.

Mr. VanSant, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. In Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. Superintendent of streets.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. 12 years.
Q. Do you know anything about the accident that occurred to the "Niagara Falls excursion train" on the T., P. & W. Ry.? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car were you in? A. The rear sleeper.
Q. What attracted your attention to the fact that there was an accident? A. The stopping of the cars.
Q. What did you do next after that? A. I got off of the car and looked forward.
Q. What did you see? A. I saw fire.
Q. Did you go to the fire? A. I came back and told the people in the car that we were in the midst of an accident. Then I went to the fire.
Q. What did you see there? A. I saw that the bridge was on fire.
Q. How much was burned? A. The bridge was burning; the piling were on fire; the timbers on top of the piling were burning, and the stringers had tolerably well burned off.
Q. Were they in place? A. When I got there the stringer on the South side was depressed.
Q. Where? A. At the East end.
Q. You saw the North stringer? A. I didn't go on that side for a long while; we fought the fire from the South side.
Q. There was a sleeper standing over that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you subdue the fire? A. Yes, sir, I never went forward to the wreck.
Q. After the fire was suppressed, did you go forward then? A. I did.
Q. What did you see there? A. The cars piled up in the shape that every one else saw them. I saw Dr. Will there and asked him if they were ready to be carried back to the cars, and told him I would carry them back.
Q. What else did you do? Did you give attention to that particular thing? A. Yes, sir. loading the wounded into the sleepers, and then I went down with the train.
Q. While you were giving attention to these wounded did you observe any robbery? A. Not a thing, because I was on the South side until we made a trip to town.
Q. You went to Chatsworth did you? A. Yes, sir; we switched the sleepers and they brought some box cars and went up for the rest, thinking that more expedient than to unload these sleepers. It was raining at this time.
Q. Then did you stay to help unload the wounded? A. I went back with the train. We left plenty of people there to help unload them.
Q. What did you do then? A. Loaded on the rest of the wounded, and then began to carry on the dead.
Q. How many did you load? A. I cannot remember anything about them. We took everything there was.
Q. Where did you take the dead? A. To Chatsworth. I did give an order to load some dead on the train going to Piper City, but I am not certain they were carried there.
Q. You say you gave an order. Were you connected with the railroad? A. No, sir; volunteer service.
Q. Do you know how many you sent to Piper City? A. I do not know. I didn't help load them going that way. Most of them were from the North side. I didn't go on that side until we returned from Chatsworth.
Q. How many dead did you help load? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. You loaded all the wounded on that train? A. Yes, sir, I was there while it was being done. There was a very bad ditch, and I had men get spades and dig it down.
Q. Did you get all the wounded before you left the second time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You went with that car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had all the dead been gotten out? A. No, sir.
Q. What time of day was that? A. I cannot tell you; it was getting daylight before we got away with the last train. The wrecking train I think came in and we went away with the second load.
Q. Did you return again to the scene of the wreck? A. No, I think I stayed down in the town helping to take care of those that had been brought down to Chatsworth.
Q. What did you do when you got there? A. I made myself generally useful. I helped to carry some of the dead over to the school house.
Q. Did you give attention to the condition of the wounded as to whether they were receiving medical attention? A. The doctors said they were all being cared for. Some of them wanted inquiries made and I did that.
Q. Were there doctors enough there? A. There were. There seemed to be plenty of doctors there. They came there in the morning and wanted to know if they could be made useful. Dr. Steele said he didn't know that they needed any more help.
Q. Are you connected with the railroad at all? A. No, sir.
Q. You are Superintendent of streets? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time did you leave Chatsworth? A. I started to leave Chatsworth on the train that pulled the sleepers to Peoria I knew there was a train in waiting at Forrest; I understood the train was being held there for fear of them coming together. I found my wife, who had heard that I was killed. We stayed until Friday night, at Chatsworth.
Q. The wounded were well taken care of? A. Yes, sir, made as comfortable as possible. There were more services offered than could be used.
Q. Did you see anything of Mr. Armstrong there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was he doing? A. He was as busy as he could be, and was paying attention to the business.
Q. Did you return to the wreck any more? A. No sir, not until the first train went over. I went to Piper City on the first passenger train.
Q. You didn't see Mr. Warren moving the cars? A. No, sir.
Q. At any time during the period covered by your attention there to the wounded, did you see any robbery of the dead? A. I don't think I saw one thing that excited suspicion in my mind. I saw people turning over grip sacks, but I thought they were theirs and they were looking for their clothing. I thought it would have been a good idea to appoint a committee to watch the things, but I didn't know who to see.
Q. You were taking care of the suffering? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't see anything that excited your suspicions in the way of robbery? A. No sir, not a thing. I saw Mr. Bennett take off of Mr. Stewart $55.00 in gold, and some eight or nine dollars in silver, and he also had his gold watch.
Q. Where did the man belong? A. In Peoria; an intimate friend of Mr. Bennett's. I think that many of the stories were started from acts of this kind. I take it for granted that was the origin of these stories.
Q. Did you see any valises cut open? A. I couldn't say they were cut open; they were torn open, and strewn all over the cars.
Q. What cars were those? A. The wrecked cars.

WM. O. CLARK.

Mr. Clark, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Thirteen years.
Q. What is your business? A. Proprietor of the Peoria House.
Q. Were you aboard the excursion train that was wrecked? A. I was.
Q. What car were you in? A. The second sleeper from the front.
Q. Were you asleep or awake? A. Awake.
Q. In bed or not? A. I had gone to my berth.
Q. What first attracted your attention? A. The motion of the car. It was not an up and down motion, but more of a sliding motion.
Q. It stopped? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do then? A. I got out of my berth and went to the front end of the car, and by looking I could see a fire. I then came back to the coach and cautioned the ladies and children not to become alarmed, that we had plenty of time, and in that way I assisted them out of the coach.
Q. How soon after the accident was it before you got out? A. Not more than five or ten minutes.
Q. Did you go to see about the fire? A. The first thing.
Q. What condition was the bridge in? A. It was on fire. I think the East and North end had fallen off the stringers.
Q. You would say that the Northeast corner was down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How was the South side? A. That was the side from which I made the observation, and the Southeast corner was depressed.
Q. Were the ties down? A. That I didn't notice. From the East side the rails appeared to be bent down, and there were trucks in there.
Q. But the West end didn't appear to be down? A. No, sir.
Q. Was the East end pretty well burned out? A. I think so.
Q. Did you give attention to putting out the fire? A. I assisted there until the rain came.
Q. After that you went to the wreck? A. I assisted in getting the wounded back into the sleepers, and went to Chatsworth with them.
Q. Did you observe any pillaging? A. No, sir.
Q. When you came back what did you do? A. I assisted them around there in removing the debris; most of the wounded were out.
Q. What about the dead? A. Most of them had been moved, but they were still moving some of them.
Q. How did they get them out? A. The car that I observed more than any other, they had chopped through the sides.
Q. Were the floors of these cars piled on top of each other? A. I cannot say.
Q. They were chopping in and taking them out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you there when the cars were moved? A. No, sir, I was not. I was there when they commenced putting the ropes around.
Q. Had the dead all been moved before you left there? A. No, sir.
Q. How many had been removed? A. I don't know.
Q. What time did you leave there? A. In the neighborhood of 10 or 11 o'clock.
Q. Did you go back there any more? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you pay any attention to the wounded at Chatsworth? A. I saw a great many of them.
Q. Did you go around to the various places? A. Yes, sir; more especially to the town hall.
Q. At what time did you go there? A. Between 10 and 12 o'clock.
Q. The wounded had been dressed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see Mr. Armstrong at the wreck? A. I did; yes, sir.
Q. What was he doing? A. Everything.
Q. Very busy was he? A. Yes, sir; I think extraordinarily busy. I forgot to state that while I was working on this fire some one suggested the idea of moving the sleepers back, and I went and assisted in moving them.
Q. What became of this car that was across the chasm? A. It was there until I left.
Q. The trucks were off'? A. Yes. sir, so it could not be moved.
Q. Was that car burned? A. No, sir.
Q. Was anybody burned among the wounded? A. Not that I know of.
Q. Any among the dead? A. Not that I know of.
Q. Are you connected with the railroad? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you ever been? A. No, sir.
Q. Have no interest in it? A. None at all
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. From your observation you would say that the railroad men did what they could to care for the wounded and the dead? A. I know they did. The porters on the cars and the conductor, I know they were hard at work. After we commenced on this fire I sent word back to each sleeper not to allow any one to take a drop of water out of the tanks.
Q. Why did you do that? A. Because from the cries of the wounded, I thought they wanted it the most.
Q. Those at the bridge knocked the timbers off? A. They tried to pry them off as best they could. We had nothing but four coal hods and an ax or two. I didn't see any one there but what did their utmost. I didn't call on a single man but what he was right on hand; everybody seemed to turn out and work. The only man I saw that wouldn't do anything was a man . I thought some one ought to be sent down the track with a light, and I took a red light from one of the porters and in going down the track I met a party coming this way on horse back, and he wanted to know what was the matter, and I said go to Chatsworth and bring some buckets; but he said he would rather go to the wreck.

S. A. KINSEY.

Mr. Kinsey, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. You are the mayor of Peoria? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know anything of this accident that happened on the T., P. & W. on the 10th of August? A. Only from reports; I was not on the train.
Q. Where were you? A. At home.
Q. When did you first hear of the accident? A. About 2 o'clock in the morning.
Q. Where did you get your information? A. It was telephoned from the city hall.
Q. From whom? A. Captain of the night police.
Q. What did you do in pursuance of that? A. I went down to the depot in the morning. I went down to the city hall immediately to see what arrangements had been made for trains going out of Peoria; they had sent a train out before that, and said there would be another at 8 in the morning.
Q. Did you know at that time that any of the citizens were on the train? A. I did, sir.
Q. And you were solicitous about them? A. Yes, sir. I went to the hall and met a couple of men and sent them out; I didn't know at that time the magnitude of the accident. I sent three men out to the wreck and made arrangements at home to receive the wounded and dead as they were brought back.
Q. What was done to relieve the sufferings of the wounded here? A. We made arrangements to take care of them with the hospitals, and secured cots, etc., to carry them on, and had physicians to attend to them in case they needed medical attention.
Q. Were there many of them brought here? A. Yes, sir, quite a number. I cannot tell you the exact number.
Q. Did you personally go out to the wreck? A. I was not at the wreck at all. I thought I could do more good here I sent a committee myself. The first committee consisted of thirty and was used as it was needed.
Q. You would say that every attention that you could give was given? A. Yes, sir, everything possible.
Q. Are there any of the wounded here now? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any strangers? A. Yes, sir, there are some five or six here yet, and are being taken care of.
Q. Is there anything more that you haven't stated? A. Some of the strangers are at the hospital. There is quite a number of physicians connected with the hospital. Three of the strangers are at St. Francis hospital and are receiving every attention possible.
Q. Did the duties of this committee consist in part of furnishing information to these wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Corresponding with their friends? A. Yes, sir.
Q. All the details were carried out? A. Yes, sir, kept committees there all the time.
Q. Were any of the dead brought here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was done with them? A. Those that were not identified were taken to the morgue. There were eleven, and ten of them have been identified since, and one has been buried. It was in a vault at first.
Q. Who was that supposed to be? A. I don't know.
Q. There was some question in the paper. A. That was about Mrs. Hicks. That's not her. We kept her as long as it was possible to keep her.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Do you know the number of dead that you received here? A. I cannot give you the exact number. I would have prepared myself had I known I was going to be called upon.
Q. The railroad officials took an interest in what your committee did? A. A great interest. Everything was done that I desired.
 

MAJOR HENRY W. WELLS.

Major Wells, being duly sworn was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Do you reside in Peoria? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Since '65.
Q. What business are you engaged in? A. Lawyer.
Q. Do you know anything of this accident that occurred on the 10th of August on the T., P. & W. Ry.? A. I knew nothing about it until the next morning at about 8 o'clock; then I was asked to go to the depot and help care for the wounded and sick. I was with the committee.
Q. Were you a member of the relief committee? A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell us in a general way what you did to attend to the wounded?
A. I couldn't say how many wounded came on the first train. We took them off as carefully as we could. There was an abundance of help—more than could be used. One of them was sent to the hospital. Two were sent home. I don't know how many were brought in on the next train, but the train that came in on the next night—about eleven, if my recollection is right—brought in a number more that were also taken care of in the very best manner that we could. Mr. Hitchcock had charge of the men about the depot, and kept the nearest in line, and did the best he could to keep the crowd away. There was an immense crowd. The next night, I would not say the time, but it was late in the night, another train came in with a great many dead. Some said thirty; some one afterwards told me twenty-six.
Q. What was done with them? A. They were packed in ice all around the coffins. The ice was thrown out; they were unloaded. Some went out on the trains. Some of them, a large majority, went to the freight room of the depot. I saw several loaded into wagons and taken up town. Mr. Godel was taken up one evening. His remains and others of the dead were taken to a room on Adams street—Mr. Fay's building—where they were examined and identified. The building is on the corner of Adams and Liberty. This was all done under supervision. There was as good a system as could be in the flash of the minute. Mr. Hitchcock and Mayor Kinsey seemed to be in charge. We took orders from them. Mr. Burnett seemed to be there a great deal of the time. I went to the telegraph office once. They gave me all the information they could. To the telegraph office in the depot. Dispatches were coming in and were read by us frequently. There was a great crowd there, and you could hardly repress them.
Q. Did the railroad officials co-operate with your committee? A. Yes. Mr. Gould was there part of the time, and Mr. Ogden was there all of the time. Mr. Burnett was there part of the time.
Q. What positions do they occupy? A. Mr. Burnett is Superintendent of the P. & P. U., and had charge of the depot. Mr. Ogden is Assistant Train Master, I think. Mr. Gould is the General Passenger Agent.
Q. Do you know what the railroad company did about the wounded that were sent to their homes? A. I know that everything that was asked was done. Nobody refused. I know that if a request was made, the employes responded immediately, and helped to unload the dead.
Q. Do you know in the aggregate, how many of the dead were brought here? A. Well, I don't know. On one train, some one said there were thirty. I was afterwards told there were twenty-six. There were others at different times. In what number, or who they were, I don't know.
Q. Didn't you go out to where the accident occurred? A. No; I was here all of the time.
Q. I believe that is all, Major, unless there is some other fact that you regard as material to throw light on this subject? A. I don't know of anything.

JAMES BENNETT.

Mr. Bennett, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. In Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Thirty-two years.
Q. What business are you engaged in? A. Undertaker, for the last number of years.
Q. Did you know anything of this accident that occurred on the 10th near Chatsworth? A. Yes.
Q. Were you on that train? A. I was.
Q. Had you gone to bed when the accident happened? A. No.
Q. What car were you in? A. The last sleeper.
Q. You say you hadn't gone to bed? No.
Q. Were you wide awake? A. There were a number of us in the smoking department of the sleeper a few moments previous to the accident. Do you wish me to name them?
Q. No, that is not material. A. I made the remark as I came up that it was time to go to bed. Mr. VanSant and I were going to occupy the same berth. We were both sitting here on the right [indicating]. There was the end of the car to go out, and we had just raised up to go to bed when we felt the shock. Then we were standing still. We grabbed each other for mutual protection. I didn't fall down. VanSant grabbed me and I grabbed him, and the last great terrible shock came, and then we stopped. "God," says he, "Bennett, we are off the track." I don't know whether he stepped down at the hind end of the train first, or whether I stepped down first. We both went down together, and we were the two first men out of the train, I think. The extreme rear end of the train. Says he, "My God, there is something the matter. Here's a smash up." We got down off the step, and started then to go forward to see what was wrong, but it seemed an awful long time before we came to anything. In the total darkness, we groped our way along the side of the track until we came to this bridge.
Q. Was there a fire there? A. No. Van was just a little in advance of me at the time. I didn't see anybody there. I might be mistaken, but I believe VanSant and myself were the first men at the bridge. I am not sure. I am not positive.
Q. Those were your impressions? A. Yes. When we came to the bridge, we saw a car standing over the chasm. Van was the first man that I heard say anything. "Bennett," says he, "My God, we must put this fire out."
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. We did. Says I, "Van, what shall we do? There is no water here. What shall we do?" "Well," says he, "we must do something." I believe it was Van said if we can't do anything, we must cut dirt loose here from the side of the bank and throw it on the fire.
Q. Was there anybody else there at work at the fire? A. No, sir. Nobody else working at the fire.
Q. Did you notice what progress the fire had made in destroying the bridge? A. Yes.
Q. What part, if any, was destroyed? A. The top part was all gone except the rails and the posts; or would you call them ties? The rails were still extended from one side to the other, but everything else was down except the railing and the post. I think there was one, there might possibly have been two, pair of wheels laying in the bottom. The paper stated this morning that the chasm was full. That's a lie. There was one, possibly two, pair of trucks lying in the chasm below.
Q. Which side of the road were you on? A. The right hand side; the South side.
Q. Well, did you throw dirt on the fire? A. "Van, what can we do?" says I. There was no water there. We asked the niggers that were there to get us some axes or something from the sleepers. They done so , the axes came, and some buckets came. We used everything in the world to hold the dirt. I cut dirt for a while; others cut dirt. We gathered it up in buckets, hats and everything in the world that we could find. We threw it on the fire to keep it down from setting the cars.
Q. Was the fire blazing up? A. Yes, of course. Van says to me, "Bennett, we must keep this fire down." If the wind was in that direction it would have burned everything up. We went to work. I don't know how long. There were other men there that were stronger than I who took my place. I went on and crossed the ravine. I was working at this time on the West side of the ravine. I could hear the cries of the wounded on the other side. There was other men coming up that were younger, and more strong and vigorous than I was. "Bennett," some one called me by name and said, "let me do this." I then went over the ravine. The first man I struck was Dr. Will. He was then across the ravine.
Q. What was he doing? A. Dr. Will was then at that time assisting those that had been brought out from the wreck. People were bringing these wounded at that time. We worked at the bridge there. In the excitement, I could not tell whether I worked ten minutes or twenty. I could not tell, but I was chopping. I had an ax that the niggers brought from the sleeper. I had an ax and was chopping the dirt loose, and the other men were gathering this dirt, as I chopped it loose, and were throwing it on the fire to keep it down. When Van Sant and me reached that bridge, I don't believe there was another soul there. Says he, "My God, Bennett, we must put this fire out, or the whole thing will be burned up. What can we do?'' We asked if there was water. No, there was not. There was a nigger standing on the side there. We asked him what he had in the sleeper.
Q. Was he there when you got there? A. No. There was nobody there. I don't remember a soul that was there. Only Van Sant and me.
Q. Well, go ahead and tell what happened afterwards. A. Are you satisfied as far as I have gone?
Q. Yes. You say you crossed over and saw the Doctor? What did you do? A. There was other parties that came up and took the ax from my hand. I was chopping dirt, and some one says, "Here, old man, let me chop and get the dirt loose." I gave up the ax to the younger man who came along to take my place. I remarked to Van at the time, says I, "Van, for God's sake, you stay here with the bridge, because if that car ever gets afire, the whole thing will be burned."
Q. After that, did you help carry out any of the wounded? A. After I got across the bridge, that's where the trouble commenced.
Q. Did you stay there until the wounded were all taken out? A. I did.
Q. Did you help load them on the cars? A. I did. About the first man I struck after I got across the ravine in the dark, was Dr. Will. He was attending to the wounded as they brought them out. I took a lamp out of somebody's hand, I don't know whose. Dr. Will and I then went to work. We could hear the cries of the wounded. I didn't help take any one away. I stayed right there with Dr. Will, and administered to the wounds of those that were taken out the best I could. We came to one man, and examined his wounds. He was not badly hurt. He could wait. We looked for those that were more seriously hurt.
Q. That is the way you proceeded? A. Yes.
Q. Did you observe any one robbing the wounded? A. Yes.
Q. What did you see? A. Oh, that was a long time afterwards; about four or five hours after the present time.
Q. Yes, but we want to get to that question. Tell us what you know about that. A. After we had got everybody out that there was any sound emanating from the cars, there was a sort of a lull. I thought I would go through and see if there was anything left there. I asked somebody, I don't know who, "Are they all out?" "Yes, Bennett, they are all out." To satisfy myself, I climbed out over the wreck and got into the car. I crawled through on my hands and knees, right through the wreck up to as far as I could go.
Q. What side were you on? A. The South side all the time—the South side of the road. You don't want me, I suppose, to tell what I saw going through those cars.
Q. Yes, tell us. Tell us what you saw. You are the first man that we have had in that position. You may tell us what you saw. A. As I told you, after everything had subsided a little, and we thought we had all the living out, I was not different from other men. My curiosity was excited. I climbed up over the backs, and got up into the wreck. I crawled in as best I could.
Q. Yes, what did you see? A. Everything pertaining to women and men's apparel scattered indiscriminately; pocket-books laying here, shoes and corsets laying there, and so on all the way through. I crawled through, I could not tell you how. I probably was a little excited. I crawled through as far as I could go.
Q. Did you see any bodies in there? A. We will get to that directly. I went all the way through. I looked under every crevice, under every seat. You could imagine a man climbing through a mass of ruins looking for bodies, but I find none. When I got to the further end, mind you, I got away back pretty near to the bridge. I crawled through as far as I could until there was not probably two feet of space for me to go in, but I went right through to the end. The bodies had all been taken out of that. You might say on that floor. I asked somebody there, "I guess the bodies are all out." Says he, "Yes." I got out on the North side. I didn't get out on the same side I went in on. It was then just daylight; just a few minutes after daylight. I got out on the North side, climbed down a considerable height. I didn't stop to measure the distance, but it was piled up quite high. They told me there was three cars laying under the one I had crawled through on. I got out on the North side. I saw some bodies there. There was one woman in particular that attracted my attention. She was catched right in the middle. She was pinned between the wreck. Her arms, her head, her hair was out of the car. Her body was in the wreck. She was dead, of course. She had peculiar features that I shall never forget. I shall never forget the look of that woman. She was rather of irregular features; I should judge from 25 to 30 years of age. She was dead. Her features, of course, became distorted. Her hands were out, her hair was dishevelled and falling over the head. I saw she was dead.
Q. Did you notice all those persons that you saw in the cars as you went through? A. I didn't see any as I went through. This was after I got through, when I got on the North side.
Q. What did you do then? A. After I got through, I clambered down off of the wreck. I saw some five or six bodies laying under this wreck, on the North side of the car—on the left hand side as we were going. We could not do anything at all, and there was no, you might say, immediate hurry, because they were all dead. That's when this pilfering commenced. After I got through—you want me to tell just what I saw there?
Q. Well, if you saw any pilfering going on there, we want you to state? A. Well, where am I now?
Q. Did you see any pilfering? A. I am right to the end where I crawled through the cars.
Q. Did you see any pilfering? A. Well, I saw what looked to me like pilfering.
Q. State what was done. A. Well, there was some five or six, I didn't count the men at all, but they were going through all this, apparently coming through after me, through the crevices as I had crawled through. There was some five or six men, I could not tell how many. They were coming through the wreck. I saw every conceivable article of wearing apparel for male and female.
Q. Did you see these men taking anything? A. I saw those men opening and going through and examining all those things that were scattered promiscuously through the car. There was one—a very large man of portly appearance; large red whiskers. He appeared to be one of the leaders.
Q. Did you see him pick up a watch or anything of that kind? Did you see him open a satchel? A. I could not designate any special article I crawled through on my hands and knees; so did they.
Q. Did you see them picking up any pocket-books? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see them pick up any watches? A. They were gathering up everything as they came along.
Q. Did you see them open any valises? A. No.
Q. Did you say anything to these men? A. Yes.
Q. What did you say? A. There was hardly anything proper.
Q. You can say everything here. I guess there is nothing but what can be heard. A. I said, "Gentlemen, what are you doing here?" Says I, "Damn you, you are worse than a lot of thieves. Here are people lying wounded, and we want to carry those dead out, and you are here trying to see what you can rob." I said that to the parties. One man turned up. "Old man." says he, "don't be quite so fresh."
Q. Did you say anything to him them? Did you say anything further? A. Well, there's no knowing what I might have said.
Q. What did you say? Speak it out. A. Sometimes I spoke very cuss words. I talked very sassy to them.
Q. Did they desist? A. Yes, sir. "Who is robbing the dead?" This big farmer said. Now excuse me for using that word, "big farmer," because, God knows, I would not cast any reflection upon anybody; but there was a large red whiskered man who said "Who is robbing the dead?" Says I "You. You have the appearance of robbing those cars and desecrating those dead." Says I, "God damn you, why don't you come down and help relieve those dead bodies."
Q. What did they say to that? A. "Old man, don't be quite so fresh."
Q. Did they do anything? A. I left them in disgust I went right back to the seat where my friends were lying dead.
Q. Did you mention the conduct of these men to anybody else at the time? A. No, not at the time. I have told it to a hundred people since, and during that day.
Q. Did you help take care of the wounded after that? A. Not wishing to make any remark disrespectful. Dr. Will will tell you whether I did or not.
Q. Did you help to bring them away from there? A. Yes. Mr. Armstrong came to me—the first time I came in contact with him. I have been acquainted with Mr. Armstrong for a long while. Says he "Uncle Jim, you are all right, are you?'' Says I, "yes." We talked there for a minute or two; says I, "God, this is awful." Finally, says I, "Who are you anyhow?" "Why, "says he, "don't you know me, Uncle Jim?" "No, I don't." "Don't you know Armstrong?" Says I, "that aint you, Ed, is it?" Says he, "yes, that is me." I never should have known him in the world. He was black almost as a nigger.
Q. After talking with him, did you go and take care of the wounded? A. I took care of the wounded.
Q. Did you help put them on the train? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go with the train? A. I went on the first train to Chatsworth. I put them upon the platform, then went back again.
Q. Did you help bring the next load out? A. I don't think I came back the second time.
By Commissioner Rinaker. I reckon that's all for the present. A. We have not got half way through yet.
Q. I think the other parties have been over it. Mr. Parker is here, and we will take him for a while. We don't care about repeating the same facts. We don't want any repetition. If there is any fact that you know that has not been stated by these parties, state it. A. I was not here to hear it.
Q. You went back to help load the wounded? A. Yes, and continued to do so until evening.
Q. You made two trips to Chatsworth and back with the bodies of friends, and you did all you could do to relieve the sufferings of those that were there? A. Yes.

EZRA F. PARKER.

Mr. Parker, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. You were aboard of the train that was wrecked on the 10th of August? A. Yes.
Q. What car were you in? A. The Tunis; first sleeper that spanned the bridge.
Q. Were you awake at the time the accident happened? A. No.
Q. You were aroused by the accident? A. Yes.
Q. What did you do? A. I felt a sensation; I thought the cars were off the track. I was on the railroad six years, and my idea was that we were off the track.
Q. Were you employed by the railroad company at that time? A. No. Printing is my business. I will simply state some ideas of my own, and give you points that perhaps the others have not covered. I got out of our sleeper and discovered that the bridge was on fire. Mr. Kennedy and Mr. Berger, Mr. Van Sant, Mr. Niehaus were there. Mr. Bennett was there.
Q. Was Mr. Bennett there when you got there? A. I don't know, I saw him around. The first thing we thought was necessary was to keep the fire down, and I still think that was the most important work. I devoted all my energies to putting out the fire; I was the last to leave it. We used all manner of things; ice water, brushes, Pullman blankets, and everything we could find. I worked very hard. I was completely played out at the expiration of that time. It took quite a contest to put out that fire. One end of the car was piled up over the chasm, and was taking fire. I considered that the great work to save the wreck from going. If that car had taken fire, it would undoubtedly have burned the whole thing. One end of our car was piled up on this debris. It was one mass of kindling wood. If that had caught fire it would all have burned. I want to give my theory about the bridge catching fire. I worked around there as much as anyone else, and know something about it. They claim that the stubble had been burned off some days before, and as this bridge was like most ordinary bridges, they filled in the approaches with old ties, and I noticed as I was working there, on my hands and knees, some fellow was chopping the dirt around in there. You know how those ties are put in [indicating] holds the bulk-heads or bridge proper. We were working, and I was working most all the time on the South side. Take it for granted that this stubble was burned along about a week or ten days before. These ties, although covered with dirt, were set on fire at the time this was burned. I noticed that as we got down to the level of the ground on the bottom of the bridge, I noticed it was very hot. In clambering around there, in scraping these ties, they seemed to be ablaze—these old dead ties, and I had to keep myself quite aways up; and I am pretty sure the fire was communicated by those old dead ties, but I think the rain that night didn't put that fire out. I think they are still smoldering.
Q. Did they go down to the common level of the ground? A. I think so. It would be an easy matter. That might take a week to do that.
Q. You believe the fire was communicated from those old ties? A. Yes, when the dirt was scraped off those ties the fire would blaze up. I found it very hot in clambering around there.
Q. This fire on those old ties was beneath the dirt that you were digging off? A. Yes.
Q. That's your idea? A. Yes, and I am satisfied that its correct. I didn't do anything else worth speaking of whatever. After the fire was out, I made one tour around the wreck. The general tendency was for everyone to go forward. I made one trip around, and knowing that I had no physical strength left, I went in the sleeper and laid down.
Q. You are in the employ of the railroad? A. No.
Q. You were on a sleeper on that excursion train? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any robbing or pilfering of the dead going on? A. As far as robbing is concerned, I said at the time, and say so yet, that there was very little done. I think the railroad company did everything possible to help the people there. I am not interested in the railroad company, never did any printing for them.
Q. Are you related to any of the railroad officials? A. No, I am not.

JOHN M. NIEHAUS.

Mr. Niehaus, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria, Illinois.
Q. What is your business? A. Lawyer by occupation; States Attorney of this county.
Q. Did you know anything of the accident that happened on the T., P. & W., on the 10th of August? A. Yes, I was on the train, in the rear sleeper.
Q. Had you gone to bed, or were you awake? A. No, I was in the smoking part of the sleeper. There were quite a number of us there together. I think it was probably about twenty minutes before 12 when the shock came.
Q. Just go on and tell what you know as to what transpired. A. My recollection is we were sitting together in this smoking room. There was Van Sant and Coroner Bennett, and Thad Ely, and Johnson Cole, George Beasley and John Brauer and myself, and we felt a shock, and then two more followed in quick succession. The impression that I got was that some coach had run off the track, and was bumping against the ties; that was what I supposed was the extent of the accident when I got out. We all got up and rushed out immediately. We were in our shirt sleeves, and when we got out we saw there was some fire ahead. I think there were others from the sleepers before us that got to the fire before we did, and when I got up there, the bridge was burning. It was ablaze; that is, what was left of it.
Q. State in what condition it was. A. I didn't notice any top timbers; they had apparently either been burned away before the train struck the bridge, or else they had been thrown down by the crash; but the first sleeper, when I saw it, was probably in the middle, over the culvert, and the trucks were down; had fallen off of the sleeper, and the timbers were burning. The coach being over this culvert had seemed to form a sort of a funnel. There was a draft and the timbers were burning brightly. It seemed to draw through.
Q. You were on the South side of the train? A. Yes; the first thing I did was to rush out. I had noticed an ax in the coach in front. I rushed back, and got the ax, and commenced cutting some of the hedges, and fighting the fire; somebody said, move the coaches back on the track for fear they would burn. We all moved them back one by one. I then went forward to see the extent of the wreck, and I worked around there; while helping some of the people out, somebody shouted from the fire. I went around there and discovered they were working hard there, and the fire seemed creeping up towards the sleeper. They wanted more help, and I pitched in there, and stayed there until we had the fire in subjection; until there was no more danger. The wind changed then; it had been blowing from the Southwest, and just then the rain changed round, and came in heavy gusts from the culvert, and for two or three seconds everything seemed to be ablaze again. The cars looked as though they had caught fire, and it seemed there were some blankets there, and I had some coal buckets, and we threw dirt on the fire, and put it out in that way. There was a gust of wind, and then it seemed to let up. I kept at it until there was no more danger.
Q. Did you go through to the wreck again? A. Yes, as soon as I got through there I went back and rendered whatever assistance I could in getting out the dead. I was at the bridge most of the time.
Q. Did you know any of the passengers, brought out of the wrecked cars, any of the wounded, dead or others? A. I didn't recognize any. I knew some of them. Mr. Jno. G. Siegel, of Rosefield, was in one of the day coaches. He was not very badly hurt. He was hurt some about the right leg, I think. He had some scratches and his clothes were torn some. He was in a day coach.
Q. How did you find the wreck? What position were the cars in? A. As near as I can tell now, there seemed to be four or five of the coaches, including the chair cars, that were telescoped; one crowed right into the other. These occupied about as much space as one coach would. There were others; I think Mr. Armstrong's car was badly wrecked, but that was more to one side. Several were laying there in a heap. I noticed the engine the next morning in the debris. To some extent they were piled over the engine.
Q. Did any of the cars get burned up there? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether any of the injured were burned, or the dead? A. No, I think not. There wasn't any that I saw. Of course. I was all around the wreck.
Q. Were you there when the cars were removed from the pile? A. No. I went in at daylight. I thought we had all the wounded out before daylight. I thought we had all the wounded out just before the rain came up. There were some dead in there yet. I don't think they got all of the dead out before noon. The wounded, I am pretty certain, were all out when the rain came up.
Q. Were you there when all the dead were removed? A. They had been placed at the side there, and there were two trains that came in. I went on the first of the two trains that went in after daybreak, took in all the rest of the wounded and the dead.
Q. How many dead did you see there? A. I didn't count them.
Q. When you left, you supposed they were all out of the wreck? A. Not all the dead. I supposed away down below there were many more. There was no way I could get at them. The wrecking train came just after we got to Chatsworth, but the wounded we supposed were all out before daybreak.
Q. Did you observe whether there was any green grass on the opposite side of the bridge on the track—the right of way next to the bridge? A. Well, I know there was some grass that burned at the time when I was telling you the wind changed around, and the sparks and cinders blew, and several gusts of wind came, and the grass, I should judge about five or six feet from the culvert. This was the South end of the culvert—the one nearest Peoria—and down this way towards the center of the culvert [indicating with the aid of a slip of paper] and South about five or six feet, the cars commenced to burn, and it was spreading when we threw dirt on it and smothered it out.
Q. Did you notice whether that was dry or green grass? A. There was not much heat there, because the wind had been going in another direction up to that time. Of course, I don't know how dry it was. It burned very rapidly.
Q. How many feet from the bridge? A. Five or six feet from the edge on the South side, and towards the center of the culvert. I think Mr. Gelanmar was there at that time, and two or three other gentlemen that stood there and helped.
Q. You mean five or six feet from the end of the bridge, or five or six feet from the bridge proper? A. I mean from the edges of the timber; from the end of the timber. That's what I mean. The timbers were on either side of the culvert, and I mean about five or six feet from the end of the timbers on the South side towards the center of the culvert, and towards the South. For instance, suppose this was the edge. [Indicating with piece of paper.] It was out in this direction. That would make it some eight or ten feet South of the stringers of the bridge.
Q What do you call the stringers? A. The cross pieces that hold the ties and span the bridge. Yes, I should judge about seven or eight feet from the edge of the bridge.
Q. About seven or eight feet from the bridge. I call the witness' attention to that because the section men had cut the grass from the bridge.
Q. You mean five or six feet from the extreme South end of the bridge? A. Yes, from the edges of the timbers.
Q. Measuring straight to the track? A. It would necessarily be further from the track.
Q. Well, the track was up a good ways from this? A. Yes. Those were the timbers that were built in behind to hold the dirt from falling in, and rests, I suppose, for the stringers. There were four pilings down on each side, and there was a cap put upon that, and the stringers are what span the bridge.
Q. Now the timbers you are talking about were for keeping the dirt from falling in the ditch? A. It was the timbers on each side of the bridge. It was the base of those timbers that were all aglow with fire from top to bottom; the side nearest Peoria was the most visible. The West side, I think. The other side was covered up with trucks, and you could not see that so much; but the side nearest Peoria was all aglow with fire.
Q. How high was the bridge? A. I should judge that the bridge was ten feet high. May be not that high. I didn't measure it, and it was not very wide either. Probably not more than the length of an engine or tender; about fifteen feet long; about thirteen feet between the posts. That would be my judgment about the length of an engine or tender.
Q. Now then, from what you saw about that fire, where would it seem to you, thinking about it since, that the fire first broke out? Would you suppose, from the way it burned, it was on top, or was it down at the bulk-heads? A. I should think that it commenced from the bottom and burned up.
Q. Which side? Could you tell anything from the way it burned which side caught first—the East or West side? A. No, it would be impossible to tell when I saw it.
Q. Was the East side burned the most when you got there? A. I was on the South side.
Q. I mean the East end of the bridge. A. The East end was not as visible as the other end, because those trucks were piled in there, and you could not see in between the trucks.
Q. You could see, notwithstanding these trucks, that it was burning? A. The other side was intact. All the timbers were up just as they had been before the fire had burned. The stringers were on those caps. That is, the pieces that crossed the bridge and held up the ties.
Q. Were they still standing? A. No, and the rails were bent.
Q. That is on the East side? A. That was the South side of the road. The trucks had pressed down the rails, and they were thrown in every conceivable shape.
Q. Where was that curvature in the rails, at the East or West end, or at the middle? A. I think at the middle, I didn't take particular notice.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Were the stringers off the West end of the bridge? A. Yes, entirely off. That's my recollection, although I was on the North side a very short time. I was most of the time on the South side. We finally got a big piece of timber and battered down the burning timbers.
Q. Was the grass on the South side of the bridge burning? A. At one time, just about five feet from the edge of the timbers.
Q. That grass took fire after you had been there some time? A. Yes, just before the rain. The wind changed just before the rain.
Q. Was the grass on the South side burning before you went up? A. No.
Q. No indications of fire there? A. No, except in the bridge proper, but the wind was blowing from the South, and through the bridge, and all the flame and heat was going to the North. It could not have taken fire from the grass South of the bridge, because that was burned afterwards. Of course, I don't know. If there was grass near those timbers, it had time to burn and be extinguished and set fire to the bridge before we got there.
Q. Five feet from these timbers, the grass did burn two hours after you got there? A. Well, don't understand me that it was burning. It commenced to burn when the wind changed through a mass of sparks and heat, and from this direction it spread. But next to the timbers I didn't see any dry grass. There may have been none there, or it may have been burned the night before.
Q. Or it may have been shoveled out? A. I don't know.
Q. The wind changed just before the rain? A. Yes.
Q. The wind had been blowing from the Southwest, and all at once it turned around and blew the other way, and then the rain came? A. Yes.
Q. That assisted in putting out the fire? A. The fire at that time was very much under control; of course, the rain helped to put out the balance of it. Of course we shoveled around that culvert and dug the dirt in every conceivable way to put the fire out.
Q. How large a space of ground did the fire burning the grass cover? A. Well, I should judge rather a small space; may be four feet in diameter.
Q. That, you extinguished? A. Yes. The fire didn't burn it. There was another thing that helped us in controlling that. The grass there had been more or less trampled on. It was not standing up straight, and didn't burn as brightly nor as rapidly as it may have done.
Q. It was green grass? A. I don't know.
Q. Did you look at it in day time? A. I don't believe I went back to that culvert in day time.
Q. In getting the fire under control, and getting the timbers down, how were the old ties piled back against the dirt there, resting against them? A. Against the bulk-heads on each side.
Q. You spoke of the burning on the West side. Did you notice any old ties in there that were piled in back that might have been on fire a good while? A. Any old ties?
Q. Yes, not used, only for piling up. They commenced on the side to build up with old ties to keep the dirt from falling in the ravine. Did you find any old ties there? A. Some one stated that there were some old ties there that had been burning for three or four days. There were some timbers, but whether they were ties or not, I could not say. There were timbers there in the hollow burning. I didn't examine them. You mean in the culvert?
Q. Yes, under the bridge to keep the dirt from falling in. . A. I don't know whether there were any ties in there or not.
Q. You say you were in the front sleeper? A. The last sleeper.
Q. Did you notice the position of the front sleeper? A. The impression I had was that the sleeping coach was pretty near half over that culvert. Pretty near as much on one side as on the other. That may not correct, but that is my impression. I could not say whether the hind portion was resting on the rails or not. The car hung pretty near from the center. The car was much longer than the bridge. The bridge was fifteen feet and the car sixty. Probably one end was resting on the rail, and the other leaned up against the wreck. I didn't examine.
Q. There were several trucks there, were there not? A. There seemed to be a good many wheels in the chasm or ditch. I think a good many had dropped in off of the cars as they passed over.
Q. If you hadn't put out that fire, the Pullman car would have caught fire? A. Yes, I think so. The wooden portion of the trucks was burning, and that was what we threw dirt on.
Q. If you hadn't done that, it would have burned? A. Yes, that was what we thought. The wind was in that direction, and there was a good wind blowing too.
Q. After the wind changed and began blowing from the North, there was not so much danger? A. Immediately after that the fire was in subjection, but after the wind changed it seemed as if everything was going. The car being over the blaze made a suction under it.
Q. Were you off of the sleeper and on the platform at Chatsworth? A. No, didn't go out. Mr. Fellrath and I were on the platform of our sleeper for a good many miles before we got to Forrest, and then I went into the sleeper, and he went into his.
Q. What was the rate of speed? A. The only thing I noticed was that the train was running pretty fast, and we talked about it. He said he thought that it must be running about forty miles an hour. That was between Forrest and Chatsworth. After we got to Forrest I went into the sleeper and took no particular notice.
Q. Who said he thought the train was running forty miles an hour? A. Charles Fellrath.
Q. Is he here? A. I don't know whether he is back or not. He went on to New York. The train was going unusually fast, although I didn't mind it. It suited me very well.
Q. What rate of speed do you think it was going at as it struck the bridge? A. I don't know as I paid any attention. I was in the sleeper chatting when the collision took place.
Q. Did you see any light or fire? A. Not until I got there.
Q. Have you any criticism to make as to the conduct of the railroad officials in the management of their train, or in taking care of the wounded and dead? A. I don't know what the reason was, but it seemed to me as though on that first train, the relief train, that there ought to have been more doctors. I only noticed one doctor from Peoria, and there were two or three other gentlemen that stepped off the train that I thought were perhaps doctors from some other place; but I thought there ought to have been more doctors, because the wounded had been laying either out there or at Chatsworth, without any assistance except such as Dr. Will was able to afford them. I thought they ought to have made an effort to get more doctors.
Q. You don't know how many doctors there were? A. I only saw Dr. Steele from Peoria.
Q. Doctors from other points answered as well as from Peoria? A. I think so, yes. I thought I only noticed two or three other gentlemen that looked to me like doctors.
Q. Do you know how many other doctors there were? A. No, I am speaking especially of Peoria. I think they should have got more doctors from Peoria. I think there was three or four doctors on that train, but only one from Peoria. Of course I am not mistaken about Peoria. There was only Steele.
Q. Do you know how many doctors were at Chatsworth that didn't come on that train with Dr. Steele? A. I did not.
Q. You, of course, do not know how many doctors there were at Piper City? A. I was not there.
Q. Have you any other criticism to make on the management of the train, or the conduct of the officials? A. There was a good deal of complaint about holding that train at Forrest. There were doctors on that train. Some had patients in the wreck; some had friends that were wounded; and I didn't think it was right to hold that train, but I don't know what the reason was. I don't know why it was held.
Q. Were you at Chatsworth while it was held? A. Yes.
Q. What were the railroad people doing at that time with reference to the train? A. The first train went up to the wreck. Mr. Armstrong was back and forth most of the time at the wreck, and of course, they were attending to them as well as they could. There was a large number of people on that train that was held who had friends and wounded in the wreck.
Q. Was there much of a crowd at Chatsworth at that time, the time the train was being held at Forrest? A. Mostly those who were on the train and the officials.
Q. Did you notice any one going in the room where the wounded were? A. Yes. The ladies at Chatsworth.
Q. I mean persons out of idle curiosity. A. I don't know. There may have been. Most of them seemed to go in to see whether there was any one in there that they knew, or to speak an encouraging word to, or something of that kind. Of course, I don't know what the reason was for holding that train, but it looked to me at the time that there was no reason for their not going on and giving those people an opportunity to see their friends.
By Mr. Lee.—Q. The wounded at that time were cared for, or being taken care of? A. Yes, the wounded were in this hall at Chatsworth; the doctors were taking care of them. I didn't see many doctors.
Q. What time would the train have been there if it had not been detained? A. I don't know; I heard it was over an hour at Forrest.
Q. What time would it have been there? A. I think our train left Chatsworth about noon, and I guess the other train didn't start from Forrest until we got there. I don't know only what they told me; that they were detained for an hour.
Q. What hour in the day? A. It must have been somewhere between 10:30 and noon.
Q. Had the wounded been pretty well taken care of before that time? A. Yes; the dead were partially in the houses at Chatsworth, partially lying around there. They were not taken care of, and could have been if these people had been there.
Q. But the wounded had been cared for before that time? A. Yes; they had been taken care of, and were in charge of the people there, and whatever medical assistance that was there.
Q. Did you pass that train held at Forrest in coming to Peoria? A. My impression is that we met that train.
Q. Did you come on the train that was made up at Chatsworth? A. Yes. I met Gish and Wead coming.
Q. How long were they making up that train at Chatsworth? A. What do you mean?
Q. Getting it ready. Did they bring any wounded on that train? A. Yes.
Q. How long were they getting it ready? A. Part of them were sleepers that had been standing there all morning. I don't know where they got the other coaches. It didn't take very long to make up the train.
Q. Do you know whether that was the reason they didn't let that train come on from Forrest? A. I don't know.
By Commissioner Rinaker. Q. Have you any other criticism to make? A. No.
Q. Can you tell us any one that has? A. Most of the criticisms I heard were in reference to those two points that I spoke of; and at that time, without knowing any reasons, I thought they were justified. As far as the management is concerned, I don't know anything about it. I don't know what precautions were taken or anything about it.
Q. I suppose that the people out there expected that when the Peoria train came, it would bring a lot of doctors? A. Yes.
Q. And as only one doctor came from Peoria, they felt disappointed? A. I suppose that was something of a disappointment to the people.
 

E. N. ARMSTRONG, RECALLED.

Q. What was the distance between the several stations from Peoria to Chatsworth? A. I will have to refer to time card for that.
Q. How many stations are there? A. Fifteen stations between here and there. The distance is on that train sheet that we put in evidence.
Q. Do you know, Mr. Armstrong, why that train was detained at Forrest? A. Yes, sir; we were getting a coach ready there.
Q. I mean the train Mr. Niehaus referred to. A. We had Chatsworth full of cars and was expecting every minute that a train would come up from the wreck with the baggage of these people that wanted to get back to Peoria. Everyone wanted his baggage. I had no room to take care of the train until we got rid of some of the trains at Chatsworth.
Q. Is that the only reason the train was detained? A. Yes.
Q. Was it only detained long enough to remove that difficulty? A. Yes, I had an operator on duty there, and I asked him when the baggage was going to start. They were still working getting it out. As soon as the baggage was gotten out they got the train out very quickly.
Q. Do you know what time that train arrived at Forrest? A. No. It is pretty hard to remember such things in such a time. I consulted with my people that were there, Mr. Gould, Mr. Usner, and also with Dr. Will, in regard to letting any more people in there. They had all the help they needed.
Q. This is the train Dr. Steele arrived on? A. No, he got there at 7 in the morning, and others that I had ordered at Fairbury. There was none of this second train that I ordered myself. We had all the assistance and surgical aid we needed.
Q. At the time you held the train at Forrest, what was being done with the train you sent to Peoria? A. It was being gotten in shape.
Q. What did that train consist of in the way of cars? A. Five sleepers and two coaches.
Q. Did you bring any of the dead on that train? A. A good many of the wounded, no dead. I telegraphed to the operator as early as possible to allow no dead to be removed until we got there.
Q. How were the side tracks? Full of cars? A. Yes.
Q. Suppose while that train was getting ready to start for Peoria, that the train had started from Forrest, what effect would that have on the train coming to Peoria? A. It would have delayed it.
By Mr. Lee—Q. State your object for holding the train at Forrest. Was it not to give an opportunity of sending the train to Peoria? If that train had come from Forrest, it would have been in the way of the other train to come to Peoria? A. It would have been on the main track and in the way.
Q. Is there a turntable at Chatsworth? A. No.

LESLIE ROBINSON.

Mr. Robinson, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. In Peoria.
Q. Do you know anything of the accident that occurred on the T., P. & W. on the night of the 10th of August? A. Yes.
Q. Were you there? A. I got there on the train that arrived at Chatsworth from Peoria about 7 or 8 o'clock the next morning. It was the wrecking train.
Q. Did you go over when Dr. Steele went? A. I stayed all night at Fairbury that night, and went from Fairbury over on the same train with Dr. Steele.
Q. Were any of your relatives in that smash up? A. No. I didn't know but what there was a large smash up there, and could not telegraph to Peoria. Tried to telegraph at Fairbury to Peoria, but could not do so.
Q. What time was that? A. It was between 5 and 6.
Q. Do you know why you could not telegraph to Peoria? A. The operator said on account of the storm, but I learned afterwards, as you all know, that it was on account of the fire.
Q. You went with the doctor then on his train out to Chatsworth? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. Yes; stayed at Chatsworth a few minutes, and went on to the wreck.
Q. Did you go to see the dead and wounded at Chatsworth? A. No.
Q. Did the doctors stop off there? A. There were a number of doctors got off at Chatsworth.
Q. How many? A. Dr. Steele, and I think three doctors from Fairbury got on when I did, and I don't know but there were more. I am quite certain that were three, and some half dozen in all when we got to Chatsworth.
Q. They were physicians? A. Yes. That was about 8 o'clock, or a little before. The time ought to be well known.
Q. When you got to the wreck, were there no wounded there? A. No.
Q. Had they got the dead all out then? A. No.
Q. Was the wrecking train there? A. Yes; I went down on the train that had the derricks.
Q. Did you remain until the dead were taken out? A. No. I came down to Chatsworth very soon afterwards. I can't remember the number of hours. There were, as a matter of fact, forty-eight of the dead brought to Chatsworth when I arrived there.
Q. When you got to Chatsworth, there were already forty-eight of the dead there? A. Yes; we went down to the wreck and came back, and I think brought no dead; but before there was a wrecking train went down and back again, and brought, I am quite sure, twelve, and the baggage of some people.
Q. Did you stay at Chatsworth when you came back? A. Yes, until the train came to Peoria.
Q. Did you go around among the wounded? A. Yes.
Q. Did you observe the attention given to them by physicians and others? A. There was everything done that was possible to do, I think. I knew some of the wounded, and went around to see what little things I might be able to do.
Q. Did you see anything that you thought deserved criticism, at the time, of the management and conduct of the railroad officials there? A. No. I didn't see anything, but that they did everything that was in their power, or in the power of a mortal to do. Of course there were a great many people in distress, and there was great confusion. As far as the wounded were concerned, they received the best attention possible. There were a good many doctors there. I went around among them, and knew a few of them; got a few things for some of them. I remember that a train was there full of passengers wanting to come West. Some were able to travel. All the more seriously wounded were in the hospitals and other places, being taken care of. The well and slightly wounded were wanting to come away. Some of them were impatient to come, and others didn't want to go for the reason that they wanted their baggage. Mr. Gould of the T., P. & W., went down to the train, raked part of the baggage up, and twelve, as I recollect, dead bodies, and then they were engaged in trying to find the right owners of the baggage, and as quick as they could, it was moved West to Peoria.
Q. Did you come on that train? A. Yes.
Q. Do you reside in Peoria? A. Yes.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Twenty-nine years, nearly.
Q. What business are you engaged in? A. Now, I am engaged in the brewery and foundry business. Used to practice law here.
Q. How long? A. Twenty-two years.
Q. Was there anything done to the wounded when brought here? A. When we arrived, we had some wounded, and there were a great many people at the depot with wagons, and conveyances and cots and appliances for ten times as many wounded as were on the train, and their friends and relatives were there to take care of them.
Q. Was this an organized force, or a promiscuous crowd? A. It looked as though it was organized. I didn't know at the time. It turned out that it was.
Q. They evidently thought there were many more coming than came? A. Yes. They were prepared to take care of many more than came. We expected to come west sooner than we did, and were delayed by this train going down for the baggage and some of the dead.
Q. While that was being done, Mr. Robinson, did you hear of any train being detained at Forrest, and if so, what reason, if any, do you know was assigned for it? A. I heard Mr. Armstrong, and I think Mr. Usner, and Mr. Burnett, of the P. & P. U., and some other railroad men, that I know, talking about holding some train till they could get this out; that is the Peoria train. I saw this. It was standing there by us. It had the wounded aboard and passengers, and he was quite impatient to get it out, but they had to wait for this train to come up with the baggage, and there was no more side track room for the Forrest train, as we called it, to come up.
Q. If it had come, it would have stood on the main track, and no passenger train could have gone back to Forrest? A. I think not. Those people were very anxious to know who of their friends were hurt.
Q. Was there much of a crowd at Chatsworth at that time? A. There were a good many people.
Q. Were they all participating in taking care of the wounded and dead? A. They could not all. I supposed—I didn't know everybody. I supposed the people taking care of the wounded were mostly Chatsworth people. It seems everybody turned out to take care of them. You could not go near anybody that was hurt.
Q. From your observations among the wounded, state whether or not they were properly cared for, and whether there was a sufficient number of physicians to take care of them at that time. A. I heard no one asking for a physician. I went around among them, and found one man from Peoria that had his ankle broken— Mr. Frye—I didn't recognize him.
Q. What Frye is that? A. He lives in lower Peoria. He said he had his ankles fixed or set, and said that he would not have it interfered with until he got to Peoria. He was a little fearful about the skill of the physician, and the girl that was fanning him said, it was a Chatsworth physician that had fixed his foot, and that he was a good one, which was pleasing for him to learn; and I went to young Theo. Godel, who was hurt, and asked him if any bones were broken. He said, no. Told me how he was hurt. His shirt was bloody, and I asked if I should get him another. He said, no. He asked me to get something which I got. Went to Robert Zimmerman and wife, lying there, and asked Mr. Zimmerman if I could do anything; he said everything had been done.
Q. Taking in consideration all the conditions during that time at Chatsworth, while the train was being held at Forrest, state in your judgment, whether the railroad officials exercised good judgment in holding that train at Forrest in view of what had taken place, and what they wanted to do with the train there. A. I think so. It might have been different if they had known everything, if it had been known that this passenger train was not coming any sooner than it did. We expected that train to go out every minute. If they had known that it would be that long, the Forrest train might have come to Chatsworth and back again, but they expected this passenger train to go out every little while. I saw that little boy that had his leg amputated. They were carrying him out, and some one said to cut his leg off. I followed him two blocks to see whether the right persons were going to do it. Didn't know the doctor, and I talked to the men all the way. Asked them who was going to do it, and if they had consulted other physicians about it. They said it was the decision of the doctors to cut his leg off. I said, where was Dr. Steele? I knew him. This tall doctor at Fairbury, I think his name is Wilson, or Barnes, was it? And I went to hunt them both up. They said—Asked them if they (Steele and Barnes) knew about it? They said yes, they were going there. As soon as I did that, I went somewhere else. I didn't know but some unskilled doctors might do something in some haste or excitement, and it was a very distressing case. They said his mother was killed.

BENJAMIN WARREN, JR.

Mr. Warren, Jr., being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. Grain business.
Q. How long have you resided here? A. Thirteen years.
Q. Did you know anything of the accident on the 10th of August? A. Yes. My wife and daughter were aboard the train. I went the following morning at 8:30, on the Chicago train.
Q. Was that the train that was held at Forrest? A Yes.
Q. Were you on the train that was delayed at Forrest? A. It was the Chicago train, but it was understood that we were to be taken over from Forrest soon after our arrival.
Q. Then you got off of that train at Forrest? A. Yes.
Q. What time did you arrive at Chatsworth? A. Between 12:30 and 1, some time.
Q. Did you find your people when you got there? A. Yes.
Q. Were they injured in the wreck? A. No; they were in the second sleeper.
Q. What did you do when you went there? Did you go to see the wounded? A. I found my own family very soon. From that time on, I was where the wounded and dead were. Went to the wreck.
Q. Were they properly cared for? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any doctors? A. A great many more than they could use.
Q. What time did you go to the wreck? A. About half past 3.
Q. Had the dead all been removed then? A. Yes, all at Chatsworth.
Q. How many were there? A. I learned at the time that there were about seventy.
Q. How do you know they had all been removed when you got there? A. From hearsay, and not seeing any there.
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. Yes, all over.
Q. What condition was it in? A. They were beginning to remove it.
Q. Were any cars laying one on top of the other? Had they been removed each off of the other? A. Enough so that they could easily ascertain that there were no more dead bodies.
Q. Did you give that attention? A. I did. I was satisfied that there were no bodies under it.
Q. Who was in charge in removing this wreck? A. Mr. Warren, the Master Mechanic. I should judge the Road Master was there. He was giving the orders.
Q. Do you know anything more about the occurrence? A. Nothing special. I expected to say something about the delay of the train I was on.
Q. Have you any criticism to make? A. None whatever. It was generally understood that we were to go from Forrest to Chatsworth, as soon as the train arrived from Chatsworth, the one containing the wounded. Our train was made up, and we were ready to start. Just as we were starting, we got an order that a train was preparing and ready to start from Chatsworth, and we stayed there and it passed us.
Q. Was it generally known as to the cause of the delay of that train? A. I think it was. They were getting very impatient. I could readily see how it happened, when I was coming back to Peoria. There was another train in the way.
Q. How long were you detained at Forrest on the train that you went out on? A. About an hour and a half.
Q. How long after you got to Forrest on that 8:30 train, did it take them to make up a train for Chatsworth? A. About ten or fifteen minutes. They had two coaches and an engine.
By Mr. Lee.—Q. The 8:30 was what was known as the Cannon Ball? A. It was the regular Chicago train. It was generally understood that we could not go on unless they made up a special train at Forrest.
Q Did you notice whether the side tracks were free from cars? A. They were filled with cars. I noticed a number of freight cars there, and they were transfering the baggage in the afternoon.
Q. Now, if your special train made up at Forrest, had gone to Chatsworth instead of being held there, could it have been taken out at Chatsworth? A. I think there could have been some question about it.
Q. Was there any room for that train? A. I don't think there was. I could not say positively. It was generally understood at Forrest that there was no room for that train, and that we would have to remain there until the train containing the wounded had passed by.

MR. WELSH

Mr. Welsh, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. You have been taking notes here all day? A. No. I have been here only this evening. Our regular reporter, Mr. Day, was here.
Q. Who are you reporting for? A. The Peoria Transcript.
Q. Have you any criticism to make on the conduct of the officials of the road? A. None, whatever.
Q. Are you representing the Transcript? A. No; I am a telegraph operator.
Q. Have you any suggestions to make that would throw any light upon the matter? A. No.

JAMES BRADY.

Mr. Brady, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Have you been here all day? A. Since noon.
Q. Have you any suggestion to make that would throw any light upon this subject to this board? A. The only thing I thought was funny was holding that train at Forrest. Of course it would have been an inconvenience if the side tracks were full. I think they could have run that train down in some way, and then run it back.
Q. Have you any other criticism to make? A. They did all they could I think before and after. Dr. Steele said they only received one despatch that night. Mr. Mason showed me two despatches, because I was down there that night, and wanted to go out on that relief train, but I couldn't go, and he said he would show all he knew of it, and showed me two despatches. One said that the citizens were working might and main to remove the bodies; that was between 3 and 4; and another despatch read that the wounded would number about one hundred, and the wounded and dead were all mixed up together. I thought at the time that it was funny that but one doctor went.
Q. Have you any other criticism or suggestion to make? A. No.
Q. Do you know of any persons that would give information more fully than what we have already taken? I don't now.

MR.WHITE

Mr. White, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. What paper do you represent? A. The Journal.
Q. Have you any information that you can give to this commission? Any other information than what we have here? A. I have only got my information mostly from the evidence here.
Q. Have you any criticism to make? A. No; I watched the movements of the railroad men and the citizens here, and have been satisfied from first to last that they were doing all they could do to the utmost of their knowledge and capacity; have not a shadow of doubt of it, and watched them pretty closely.
Q. Do you know of any one who could give more information? A. I do not know of any one that would bring out any point that has not been brought out. Mr. Brady said there were a couple of the city officers that went over from here. The city detective Flynn, and Captain Dibble went over on the train held at Forrest. I think Mayor Kinsey's son. There were three officers, I think.
Q What time did they get to Chatsworth? A. About 1:30 or 2:00 the next day after the accident.
Q. Did I understand you to say that this doctor was informed of those two despatches before he went over? A. I don't believe the doctor was informed about them. The despatches had been there before the train had left, because Mr. Mason had been down stairs before the train left a half hour, and took me up stairs and showed me the despatches. I wanted to go over on the train; he said there would be no room.

PEORIA, COURT HOUSE, AUGUST 18, 1887.

JOHN M. TENNERY.

Mr. Tennery, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:

Q. Do you reside here in Peoria? A. Yes.
Q. You are a lawyer by occupation? A. I am.
Q. You may state, Mr. Tennery, if you were upon this excursion train that was wrecked near Chatsworth, and in what portion of the train were you? A. I occupied berth six of the sleeping car "Tunis." It was the first car, I think.
Q. That was the first car next to the wreck? A. Yes.
Q. That was the coach that hung over the burning culvert? A. Yes.
Q. What was the first thing you noticed with reference to the wreck or accident? A. I was dozing in my berth when I noticed the shock as though the train had struck some obstruction on the track, and that immediately aroused me, and I braced my feet against the board at the end of the berth, and after a very short interval there were two succeeding shocks, and then a sensation of the coach sliding and a kind of a grinding, as though there was something being pulverized or ground ahead of us. The speed then slackened. Just before the car came to a lull stop, I heard the timbers and glass of the coach ahead crash, and at the same time I noticed through the window at my feet, that we were going into a lighted space. As soon as the car came to a stop, I threw up the curtain by my head, and looked out and saw the fire immediately beneath where we were in the car.
Q. The fire was immediately beneath where your berth was? A. Yes, directly beneath.
Q. You were in the center of the coach? A. Berth six would be about the center.
Q. Did you observe the bridge after you got out of the coach? What condition was it in with reference to fire? A. I saw that the bridge was on fire, of course, in getting out of the coach. I didn't examine it closely. I have a general impression and recollection of the fire there, but didn't make any close examination.
Q. Did you observe as to whether it was a smouldering fire, or whether the flames were shooting up? A. The flames, when I got out, were shooting up through the timbers, but not high enough to reach the car, and after looking at it, I and one or two others went back into the car. We had plenty of time before it took fire to get everything in the way of baggage out of the car. We went there for that purpose.
Q. Did you notice whether all the bridge or only a portion was on fire? A. I didn't notice with reference to remembering it. My impression is, and was at the time, that the fire was mostly on the West side of the bridge; the side towards Peoria. The blaze was mainly on that side. My impression was that there was no danger from the fire except on that side, to the car above it.
Q. Did you examine the condition of the ground near the abutments of the bridge with reference to whether there was any dry grass there? A. I didn't make any examination for the purpose of ascertaining, but I remember in running across that ditch—I may call it that—on the south side of the track—the ditch over which the bridge spans—I fell as many as three times, and I remember that I fell amongst weeds and trash. I noticed that when my hands were on the ground.
Q. How far were you from the bridge at that time? A. I must have been half way between the bridge and hedge.
Q. How many feet? A. I could not tell. About half way between the bridge and hedge.
Q. On which side of the track? A. On the South side would be my judgment.
Q. Have you any judgment from what you saw there as to how long that fire may have been burning? Was the bridge burning before the train reached it? A. I would not be able to say, because it has been a long time since. It had been burning for considerable time, undoubtedly, because the logs or timbers that were piled up on the side of the culvert nearest Peoria, were burned nearly, if not quite, to the ground, and those timbers looked as though they had been burning some time.
Q. Have you any judgment as to what was the origin of the fire that caused the burning of the bridge? A. No.
Q. Did you take the names of the wounded or the dead? A. I did, some of them. I was requested to do so by Mr. Armstrong.
Q. At what place? A. At the wreck that night.
Q. Did you take any count of the persons killed? A. No.
Q. Did you of the wounded? A. No.
Q. How many names did you get of the killed and wounded? A. I don't remember, and I have not the names here now.
Q. What did you do with your list? A. I think it is at the house in my other vest pocket.
Q. Have you compared it with the list published in the papers? A. I have not. I remember seeing a number of the names in the papers that I recognized as the same that I had taken.
Q. You made no comparison to ascertain whether there was any difference between your list and the names published in the papers? A. There were a great many more.
Q. Did you have any names that were not published in the papers? A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know when the first relief train came into Chatsworth from Peoria? A. I don't know the time.
Q. Do you know about the time? I refer to the train Dr. Steele went over on. A. I don't know the exact time. I think somewhere about 8 o'clock.
Q. Did you notice any doctors on that train except Dr. Steele? A. No. I didn't notice him or any one else at the time. I saw him attending to the wounded there in the town building shortly after I arrived, and a number of other people that I don't know at all.
Q. Did you notice the number of people that got off of that train at Chatsworth? A. I didn't.
Q. Did you notice Leslie Robinson on the train? A. I didn't see him then; I saw him afterwards.
Q. You are not able to state how many doctors came on that relief train? A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know how many doctors came on that train that was detained at Forrest? I don't know.
Q Have you any judgment as to whether it is more dangerous to run a train with double headers, than to run it in sections? A. I might have an opinion as an individual, but I am not a railroad man, and know nothing about railroad business.
Q. You have no railroad experience? A. No.
Q. Have you any judgment as to whether the length of the train was such as to increase the danger, and also increase the extent of the calamity? A. Well, my reason would tell me that under the circumstances as they developed there, that there would be necessarily more cars crushed because of the length and weight of the train. I presume there would be no doubt but that was the case.
Q. You think it would be more dangerous, more people killed, more of a wreck, more crashing and more destruction than if run in two sections, or in smaller trains? A. That would necessarily be so. It might have been just as disastrous if a second train was back and had crashed into it.
Q. Did you see any pilfering done there? Any robbing of the dead? A. I didn't. I left therein the morning on the first relief train that left after daylight taking the wounded to Chatsworth. I remained there until that time. I didn't afterwards go back to the wreck.
Q. Do you know anything as to whether the wounded were as properly cared for as the circumstances made it possible, and also as to whether the dead were properly cared for by the company? Have you any judgment about that from what you saw? A. My belief at the time was, and is still, that the officials did all that perhaps could have been done as to taking care of the wounded and dead. I, of course, can see now that some things might have been done that were not, but I don't suppose that any man living could do more than Mr. Armstrong did at the time.
Q. Is there any other matter or thing that you think of that you desire to inform the commission about in reference to this matter? A. I don't think there is.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Do you know how many physicians were there at the time the second train arrived, the one that was detained at Forrest? A. I don't know.
Q. Had you been around among the wounded at Chatsworth? A. Yes. I was around, I think; to all the places where they had dead or wounded.
Q. Were there physicians in attendance? A. There were in every place that I went. There were one or more physicians, or people I took to be physicians.
Q. That was before the arrival of the detained train? A. It didn't arrive until after our train had left.
Q. I suppose you refer to the train that was held at Forrest. I want to know what was done, or what you saw there as to the sufficiency of medical treatment and attention before that train arrived? A. I don't believe there was any one neglected at all, but those at the wreck itself. Of course, it was unavoidable. That would be owing to the confusion and inability to get physicians there right away, and the want of proper facilities there. The darkness added to that. Of course, when the crash first came, we had no lights, and that was the first thing I turned my attention to, getting them from the sleeping cars. Several of us went to the sleeping cars and took lamps from there to the physicians to work by.
Q. Did you make any observation, Mr. Tennery, at any time, with reference to the speed the train was going? A. I didn't. I remember thinking about the time we retired that we were making good time. I knew we were somewhat behind, and were going to make it up. Don't know the rate of speed.
Q. You say you were awake at the time? A. I believe I was dozing at the time the first shock came, but I awakened.
Q. You spoke something about thinking about the train making pretty fast time. Was that about that time? A. That would be a little before the time I retired.
Q. What time did you retire? A. I presume that I had been in my berth twenty minutes before we left Chatsworth.
Q. Do you think of any criticism you can make upon the conductor action of the railroad officials from the beginning of this catastrophe and subsequently? A. I do not. I don't think any man could intelligently criticise it without knowing something of their help, and so on. It seemed to me that it was nearly an age after the accident occurred before we got relief. Of course, that was entirely dependent upon the disposition of the company's help and engines. That's something I know nothing about. The only thing I felt sore over in reference to the entire transaction, was the manner that I found afterwards was adopted in sending out our despatches. I took the name, on request of Mr. Armstrong of the people who were injured, and the next morning I left my despatches in the Central office at Chatsworth for transmission. One, I remember, I sent to Elmwood, which didn't arrive there until 8 o'clock the next morning. I filed in Chatsworth about six - ten [6:10].
Q. Did you notice at the time your despatches were filed that the operator of the T., P. & W. was drowsy? A. The despatches I filed were not at the T., P. & W. office; it was at the Central office. Mr. Armstrong told us that the wires were not working satisfactorily from their office, and suggested that we take the despatches from their office to the Central office. Mr. Morton was in the Central office at the time, and he was one of the parties who received the despatches. It was not at the office of the T., P. & W. at all.
Q. What time of the day was that? A. It was about 6:10 when I filed those despatches in the morning; about that time.
Q. Do you know whether the wires were down at that time on the T., P. & W.? A. No, I do not.
Q. Something was said as to their not working? A. Yes; that was one of the reasons for suggesting that we go over to the Central office.

MOSES N. GISH.

Mr. Gish, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

Q. Where do you reside? A. In Peoria.
Q. You are an attorney here? A. Yes.
Q. You went over on that morning relief train to the wreck at Chatsworth? A. Yes. I don't know that you would call it a relief train. I went at 8:30 in the morning.
Q. Do you know anything of that train being held at Forrest, and the reason for it? A. I know the train was held there; I could not give any reason.
Q. How long was it held at Forrest? A. Well, I don't know as I could say exactly. I think that we got to Forrest along about 10:30 or 11. I should judge, and I think we stayed there until about 1 o'clock. That would be my best judgment.
Q. Was there any reason given as to why that train was held at Forrest? A. There were so many reports around there that it is pretty hard to tell. I think the fireman standing on the engine, as I remember, stated to the crowd as they ran to get on the coaches, that the train bringing the wounded and such persons as could be brought from there, had started, or was about to start from Chatsworth to bring these parties on, and as soon as that train arrived at Forrest and was out of the way, the train we expected to go on would leave for Chatsworth. That was the reason given by one of the employes of the road.
Q. Was there anything said about their not wanting that train to come on, that they had more people out there than they wanted? A. I heard such reports; I could not say who from.
Q. This train had on some of the friends of the wounded and dead, and also some of the relatives, and doctors from Peoria, did it not? A. It had doctors from Peoria, and it turned out to be that there were quite a number of people on that train that had friends at the wreck.
Q. You say no direct communication from Chatsworth or from the officials here with reference to the reason that train was held was received? A. No.
Q. Did you go on to the wreck? A. After the other train came, the train we had gone on went to Chatsworth. I went to the wreck in a buggy.
Q. Was that the only way you could get out? A. Yes.
Q. What was the distance? A. I think as we drove out, the gentleman out there told me two miles and a half.
Q. Was there any refusal to take out the people to Chatsworth? A. There was none directly to me. I could not say, more than reports.
Q. Did you make any request of any one that you know? Of whoever was officiating there? A. I rode to Chatsworth from Forrest on the engine, and the sheriff and myself were in the cab with the fireman and engineer, and when we got to Chatsworth, the sheriff asked the fireman or the engineer, I could not say which, that he wanted that train to go on to the wreck. They were talking about it when I jumped off of the engine, and went into the depot. That was all the conversation I heard.
Q Did this train subsequently come out to the wreck after you got there? A. I could not say positively about that. I am inclined to think that the train went to the wreck in the afternoon, later.
Q. After another train had gone from this direction to Chatsworth? A. I think there was another train went down to the wreck. The engine went down. I saw the sheriff that had requested it to go, on the engine going down.
Q. Did you make any examination with reference to what caused the accident? A. I didn't examine it with special reference.
Q Did you notice the grass at or near the culvert? Was there any dry grass? A. I didn't notice that particularly.
Q. Were there any dead still being taken out of the wreck when you got there? A. No. I talked with the gentleman there that seemed to be in charge of the wrecking train a few minutes, and he told me that.
Q. What time was that? A. The nearest I can tell, that was between half past 2 and 3. He told me that he thought there was no more in there at that time. Myself and two or three others went through the wreck as best we could, and looked through, and my impression is that there were no more there at that time. There could have been, but I don't think so.
Q. Have you any judgment with reference to the danger of running double-headers on a long train like the one in question? A. I have no idea about that at all
Q. Have you any criticisms to make, or fault to find with the railway train as made up or managed, or the conduct of the officials of the road during that time, or after? A. As far as my opinion goes about that, up to the time of the wreck, I do not. It's a matter of opinion, of course. From what I saw, I don't see anything that the company should be censured for up to the time of the wreck.
Q. Did you see anything after the wreck that you would criticise? A. After the wreck, I don't know, but the way it looked to me, I think it was perhaps a mistake in holding that train at Forrest. I don't want to censure the company, but I thought it was a mistake.
Q. State what was the injurious effect of holding that train at Forrest? A. I could not say. I don't see how that could have been any injury further than to the feelings of the friends and relatives on the train.
Q. They were anxious to get there? A. Yes. There were several on there that had reports; where they knew nothing definite, they had reports that their friends were lost. They were anxious to get there, and some fifteen or twenty jumped into a wagon and drove to Chatsworth. They were anxious to get there; further than that, I don't see that there was any injury to anybody.
Q. When you say that you saw nothing for which to censure the company before the wreck, you do not include any negligence that the section men or parties that had to look after this bridge might have been guilty of? You simply include the officials? A. Yes.
By Mr. Lee—Q. You say that you do not know of any practical injury in conse­quence of the detention of that train? A. When I got there, I didn't see anybody that was not being cared for. I thought there was plenty of help to care for them. From what I have heard since, there seemed to be nothing more to do, and the friends were willing to help and do anything they could to any one that was hurt.
Q. You spoke, Mr. Gish, about the sheriff wanting that train run out. Was that the sheriff of Ford county? A. No, the sheriff of this county; he was on the train with us. He wanted the train run out to the wreck. He asked the engineer or fireman to run the train out to Chatsworth. He was telling the sheriff that he had no orders, or could not get orders, but that he would see that the train was run out there.
Q. Did the sheriff assign any reason why he wanted it run out there? A. I didn't stop. I made the trip to the wreck myself in a buggy. Mr. Armstrong said he made the trip to the wreck also in a buggy. He could not make two engines occupy the same place and work at the same time. The engines had been down to the wreck and Chatsworth, and had to work back and forth in that way. The track was crowded, and we couldn't take care of that train at that time.

ANDREW MOONEY.

Mr. Mooney, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Mr. Niehaus and testified as follows:

Q. Do you reside here? A. Yes.
Q. You are one of the officers in charge at the depot3 A. Yes, gate keeper.
Q. You were on this excursion train that was wrecked near Chatsworth? A. Yes.
Q. In what portion of the train were you? A. I was near the front end of the second chair car, the third seat from there. In second chair car, No. 15.
Q. I'll get you to state, Mr. Mooney, what was the first that you noticed of the accident? A. Everybody got quiet as though they were about to go to sleep. I guess I was laying on the chair myself, right behind three ladies and a gentleman. I was looking out of the window; hadn't gone to sleep yet. I felt a crash and a shock, and I looked out of the window, and saw fire flying. I knew we were off the track. I called to the ladies in front of me to look out, that the train was off the track. Another crash came then, and I stuck my head out of the window. Before the car was telescoping the car ahead, a lady grabbed hold of me. She tore my sleeve off, and her hold broke. She was falling back into the car. I grabbed her by the wrist, and went out through the top of the car. I climbed up, and the lady came with me. When I got out there, she asked me to let her go. I told her to be careful. I let her go, and she slid to the ground. The side of the car kind of separated from the roof, and I made an attempt to go back in; I knew there were a lot of ladies there in one heap, and I was going to get them out. I could not go back in. I saw Mr. Stillwell. I asked him if he was hurt. He said, not much. He and I slid off of the top of the car. There was not any one on the ground there that I saw but Ben Ellis. I slid down on the South side to the track. He was bleeding pretty bad. He had a piece of sheet iron on his head. I knocked that off. He was pulling a woman out. We carried her over to the fence. By that time there were several parties there. We tore it down and carried this woman over. I commenced hunting for some parties with me. In the corner of the chair-car to the left of where I was sitting, there were several women wedged in there. Among them was Mrs. Grant, the only lady I knew personally. I met her husband; he crawled out by that time. He was talking to her. She was inside and he outside. He and I went to work, commenced taking her out. One of the ladies' head stuck through the side of the car. She was dead. Mrs. Grant seemed to be laying on top of her. We got two more ladies laying on Mrs. Grant out. After we got them out, it must have been an hour or an hour and a half.
Q. You had no warning in any way that the accident was going to happen? A. I had not.
Q. Did you at any time see this burning bridge? A. Not till after I got on the ground.
Q. How soon after the accident was that? A. Right away; I saw the bridge on fire.
Q. Can you tell the Commission as to what kind of a fire it was, whether smoldering or in flames? A. The timbers were red. I didn't go clear back. I saw some parties putting out the fire. I didn't examine closely. I saw that it looked like a red fire, not making very much smoke. The fire was burning rapidly under the bridge when I saw it.
Q. Did you at any other time afterwards make any examination of the ground with reference to ascertaining the cause of the fire? A. I noticed the grass around there. It appeared to me the grass had been burned before. There was nothing there that I could see but coarse grass or weeds.
Q. Did you notice any burned grass near the bridge or timbers? A. I noticed that the grass had been burned.
Q. Did you notice any dry grass near the bridge? A. No.
Q. Have you any judgment, Mr. Mooney, as to what way the fire started except the burning of the bridge? A. I have not; I could not tell.
Q. Did you make any observation in reference to the number of the wounded and dead? A. Not particularly. I handled a great many of them, but kept no record.
Q. Did you notice anything at the time of the wreck or subsequently, for which you think the company ought to be censured? A. I did not. What officials were there, were doing their best.
Q. Do you know anything about the holding of this train at Forrest? A. Which train?
Q. The train that came out that left Peoria at 8:30. A. I don't know only what I have heard said.
Q. Have you any opinion to express with reference to the danger of running double-headers, or running a train of that length? A. Well, no, I was railroading all my lifetime myself, running with double-headers. Of course, there would be danger on a long bridge with double-headers, but not on a short bridge of that kind.
Q. You don't think there would have been any danger at that place if the bridge had not been burned, or weakened by fire? A. No.
Q. Did you make any observation with reference to the speed that the train was going at, at any time? A. I am pretty positive that the speed didn't exceed forty miles an hour, if it was that. I think about thirty-five or forty miles.
Q. Did you make any special observation? Is that simply a general impression? A. I noticed that I thought they were going along at a nice rate of speed, but don't think they were going to exceed forty miles an hour, if that fast.
Q. Was it running more rapidly at the time of the accident than before? A. They were running slower before they got up to the bridge. A short distance before that, they were not running quite so fast. It was up a grade. If I am not mistaken, they slackened up the train.
Q. According to your judgment, was the speed faster between Chatsworth and that bridge than before? A. I think it was running along at a very regular rate of speed between all stations, and the speed was not faster between Chatsworth and that bridge than it had been between the other stations that we had gone past.
By Mr. Lee—Q. What did you say your business was? A. Gate tender at the Union depot.
Q. Have you been a railroad man? A. Yes.
Q. Ran on trains? A. Yes.
Q. In what capacity? A. Conductor for about seven years.
Q. In any other capacity? A. Baggageman four years; brakeman four or five years.
Q. How old a man are you? A. Forty years.

GEORGE B. FOSTER.

Mr. Foster, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Mr. Lee and testified as follows:

Q. You are practicing law in Peoria? A. Yes.
Q. State whether you were a member of the citizens relief committee? A. I was.
Q. You may state what you did as a member of that committee; also what the others did with reference to the wounded and dead resulting from this accident, what conversations, if any, you had with the wounded, and where they took place, and what was said. A. Together with most of the members of the committee, I was at the depot from the morning after the accident upon the arrival of every train from the scene of the accident, and assisted in handling and removing the wounded, and also the dead; and on Saturday last, accompanied by Mr. Worthington and Mr. Armstrong, I went through to Piper City, and assisted in removing four or five to Peoria, and to the hospitals and places where they wanted to be sent here. I had a good many acquaintances among the wounded, and talked with many of them here as they came in at the depot, and after they came in, and also with those remaining at Piper City on Saturday who didn't desire to be removed. I asked in regard to the accident, what they knew of it, and in regard to how they had been treated, and what had been done. From all that was said by them, all of them stated to me that everything was done that could be done, both at the time of the accident and after, relieving them in every possible way. I also talked with Dr. Adams at Piper City. He said that everything had been done possible for the relief of those at Piper City. Those at Chatsworth, I know nothing of. His daughter was wounded and at Piper City. I also talked with Dr. Culbertson at whose house she was. I also went to others and asked them how they were treated, and being cared for. Stopped at the wreck coming back from Piper City, and then came on to Peoria.
Q. Did you hear any complaints? A. All I heard was to the contrary, that every thing had been done by the officials of the road to make them comfortable. A train left here Saturday morning, went to Chatsworth and removed all to Peoria of those that were able to be moved, and all those who cared to be. Mr. Kilduff and Bergan went to Chatsworth to see about the wounded; Mr. Worthington and myself went through to Piper City.
Q. Those you conversed with had no complaints to make? A. None at all; I conversed particularly with young Mr. McDonough, whose leg was broken. He was there at the time and was conscious, not suffering much pain. He said he was watching everything very closely. Talked with several others.

CHARLES B WILSON.

Mr. Wilson, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Mr. Niehaus, and testified as follows:

Q. What is your business? A. Deputy circuit clerk, Peoria, Illinois.
Q. Were you on the train going out to the wreck that left Peoria at 8:30? A. About that time.
Q. Was that the train that was held at Forrest? A. That train was held at Forrest.
Q. Can you state, and do you know the reason why the train was held, and how long it was held? A There were a great many reasons given; the main reason from the conductor on the train. We were all ready to go, I think it was the conductor, or some one on the train, and he came back, and said, "All you men must get off of the train. Mr. Armstrong said this train was not going through." We got off.
Q. Did you make any inquiry, or did you hear with reference to the reason the train should not go through? A. The first reason that he gave was, that a train had left Chatsworth with the wounded, and he wound up by saying that there were too many there any how.
Q. Who said that? A. I think the conductor.
Q. The conductor that went from Peoria didn't run out to Forrest? A. I think he was from Forrest.
Q. Were there some of the friends of the wounded and killed on the train, and the doctors? A. Eight or ten doctors, probably more.
Q. Tell the Commission about the train being held there at Forrest; how long was it held? A. Time was something we could not tell anything about. I think from an hour to two hours. It was at least an hour, probably two.
Q. You finally got out to the wreck? A. Yes.
Q. Were all the wounded and dead out when you got there? A. I understood so. I didn't go to the wreck for two or three hours after I got to Chatsworth. I was through the different hospitals, as you may say, there looking for friends, and seeing what I could do.
Q. Did you keep any record of the dead or wounded? A. I went into one place where they were all lying around the room, what they called the yellow house there. I didn't count, but one man said he counted 37; another 40; another 48. I didn't count. That was the house where Mrs. Deal was. Mr. Worthington and myself alone were there.
Q. Did you make any examination of the culvert or bridge with reference to ascertaining what caused the bridge to burn? A. I can't tell you what caused it to burn.
Q. Did you notice any burned grass at or near where the timbers were? A. I can't say that I did. I only noticed the bridge timbers. The grass I noticed this side of there was burned; down the track towards Chatsworth; this side of the wreck. The West side of the bridge; how near the bridge I could not say.
Q. You made no special examination about the grass? A. No.
Q. You had no opinion as to the cause of the fire, from what you saw as to how it caught? A. I have an opinion certainly, but it was just simply from hearsay a great deal.
Q. Have you any opinion from examination or observation about that fire? A. From what I saw along the track where the grass had been burned, I think it caught from the burning grass.
Q. Did you make any special observation with reference to any dry grass that was near the bridge? A. No. The fire had evidently been burning a great while. The timbers were pretty well burned. It burned in a kind of a smoldering fire, for some of the uprights of the bridge were halfway down. The posts were burned nearly in two in some places. It must have been a slow fire in order to do that.
Q. Have you sufficient information to form a judgment with reference to the danger of running double-headers? A. I think the accident would have happened all the same whether they ran a single engine or a double-header.
Q. Have you any information as to whether there is danger in running trains in that way? A. I am not a railroad man, but I should think there would be a great deal of danger. That's my own judgment.
By Mr. Lee—Q. You spoke about the detention of the train, and your orders to get off. What did you do? We got off.
Q. How did you get down to Chatsworth? A. The crowd got very excited. We went backwards and forth from one side of the track to the other; from one lunch house to another; a good many got pretty excited They spoke to the conductor, and he said he had distinct orders from Mr. Armstrong not to move that train; and all at once, Mr. O'Shaughnessy came to me, and said, "Charlie, tell the boys we were with, that I saw the conductor and he says he will run us through." I went down there. We were on the train a quarter of an hour at Forrest. We stayed there until we got disgusted. We started out and went towards the depot, and spoke to the conductor again, and he said he knew nothing about it. He said he got no orders differently. He told Mr. O'Shaughnessy that he would run us out. When we got down there he didn't do anything. I went up and commenced talking with the conductor, and some of them commenced talking, and said they would run a train themselves, and just as we were getting ready a train went through.
Q. After the train had passed how long were you kept there? A. Hard to tell about a half hour.
Q. Then they ran the train through? A. Yes; I rode on the cow-catcher.
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. Not immediately; I went to Chatsworth, stayed there until about 4 o'clock.
Q. How many doctors were on that train? A. I should say ten.
Q. Mostly from Peoria? A. Yes.
Q. When that train got down there, did there seem to be doctors enough there before they got there? Did there seem to be in your mind, a sufficient number of doctors without these on that train? A. When I went up into that hall, the town hall, up stairs, there was not a physician in that place.
Q. Had they not been there? A. They may have been there. I say at that time.
Q. When the doctors went on those trains, did you see anyone afterwards take hold and go to work? A. I took one of them especially, Dr. Bruce Martin, to Billy Smith, who was lying there and had no one to attend to him. Dr. Martin said to me, "Do you know where Billy Smith is?" I took him down, and he went to work.
Q. Do you know whether he had attention at that time? A. I could not tell.
Q. Now, this physician was acquainted perhaps, and was a family physician at home? A. I can't say whether he is or not. One reason led me to think that he was not his family physician. His brother came out and took out another surgeon, Dr. Murphy.
Q. Upon that train there were a great many people that were going down there out of curiosity to see the wreck? A. I don't think so. They seemed to be those who had friends on board the wrecked train, or relatives. There were some women there.
Q. What train did you go on? A. It was the regular train, going out on regular time.
Q. What time did you leave Peoria? A. It was the regular train going out of Peoria.
Q. What time did you leave? A. About 8:30 in the morning after the wreck. Of course there were curiosity seekers, and people went out through curiosity, I have no doubt. They were largely in the minority.
Q. You didn't go to Chatsworth? You left the train at Forrest? A. I went to Chatsworth on the same train I left Peoria. They put another engine on. The cars I went on went to Chatsworth.
Q. Did you hear any complaints? A. Of course, complaints had been made by the people who had relatives wounded or dead. For instance, Mr. Allen, Mr. Deal and Mr. Ball, whose wives were killed; they were considerably wild and incensed.
Q. Was not the reason given there that they could not move the train, that another train was about to start from Chatsworth, and that it would have to wait until it had passed through? A. And also that Mr. Armstrong didn't want it moved.
Q. How long did the Chatsworth train stand at Forrest? A. Not ten minutes, I should think. I can't tell anything about time; we were all so excited. Several of us tried to get some coffee; pretty soon, we heard the train coming up; the train stopped. We got on the cow-catcher and rode out. There was no other room.
Q. Didn't the Peoria train stop alongside of your train? A. The train I went out on, when the train from Chatsworth came into Forrest, was way down the track. Whether they stopped there or not, I don't know.
Q. Didn't the Peoria train stop there so as to give those on board of the train from Chatsworth an opportunity to go into the Peoria train and see their friends? A. The train stopped at the Forrest depot. It extended way up beyond the depot which was right across the track. I don't think it stopped down at the depot. I was not there.
Q. In order to allow the people from Peoria an opportunity to examine the wounded, and see if they had any friends on board? A. Yes, I went through to see whether there were any wounded on that train and friends. I think there were very few wounded on that train.
Q. Since the wreck, have you talked with any of the doctors on that train that was held at Forrest? A. I have not talked with them.