Chatsworth Train Accident
August 10, 1887
TESTIMONY.
FRIDAY.
Chatsworth, Illinois, August 12, 1887.... continued
Mr. Mason being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. J. M. Mason.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Piper City.
Q. What is your business? A. Agent and operator.
Q. Agent of what? A. Agent of the railroad.
Q. Were you the agent at that place on Wednesday of last week? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you as agent receive any orders respecting the examination of the right
of way? A. Yes, sir; the track, and within the limits of our stations
Q. What sort of directions? A. Received a message ''to all agents" that the last
thing we were to do that night before going home was to see that switches were
set for main track and locked, and all cars on side track clear of main track,
and see that the brakes were set all right.
Q. What would fixing the brakes have to do with cars that were standing? A. We
were to see that the brakes were all set. There was no reason why it was given.
Q. Was not any reason given for it? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you perform that duty? A. I did.
Q. Communicated it to the other subordinates? A. I have no men under me.
Q. How far is your station from the bridge that was burned? A. Between two and a
half and three miles.
Q. What is the character of the ground between your station and that bridge? A.
It is pretty level. After you get up on the hill it is pretty level.
Q. Did you have occasion to look down the track West that evening? A. Yes, sir;
many times.
Q. Why? A. We were watching for the train.
Q. Did you see any signs of fire? A. No, sir.
Q. What period of time from 6 o'clock until the accident happened, did you
devote to that direction? A. I was excused at 6 o'clock, and was to come on duty
at 9:30, and the train was then due in 30 minutes.
Q. Did you from the time you went on duty until the accident, direct your
attention West along the line of the road? A. To a certain extent I did. Of
course I knew where the train was. I looked a little more than usual, because a
man would say he saw a little light, and he called me out to see.
Q. What character of light was it? A. I couldn't see anything at all.
Q. He said he could? A. They all laughed at me. I couldn't see any signs of a
light.
Q. How frequently was your attention directed to the fact that there was a light
down there? A. That was the only time until we saw the head-light of the engine.
Q. Where was it at that time? A. Just about at that bridge.
Q. What time was that? A. I think it was about 11:30.
Q. You think it was about 11:30? A. I think it was.
Q. Did you go down there that night? A. No, sir.
Q. Had you been near this bridge before this accident? A. No, sir; never saw
this bridge but twice.
Q. Why didn't you go down there? A. I couldn't go. My duty was at the key.
Q. What were you doing there? A. Operating.
Q. For whom? A. A great many.
Q. Did you receive any orders from any of the railroad officers? A. Yes, sir.
The first thing I did after the engine came up—we got all the men we could and
started down the track. I went right to the key and told them all I knew about
it.
Q. Whom? A. The dispatcher in Peoria.
Q. Who was the dispatcher at Peoria? A. Mr. ---------
Q. Did you learn anything of the wreck before the engine got there? A. No, sir,
but we thought something was the matter because it stood there so long.
Q. You hadn't learned of any accident before the engine came? A. No, sir.
Q. Your duties were to send messages as the case required? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Was that train to stop at Piper City? A. It was to
stop on a flag, and the flag was conditioned that we had passengers that held
excursion tickets for Niagara Falls; then I was to flag the train.
Q. You spoke of seeing the head-light, and you thought something was wrong? A.
It appeared to stand so long that it attracted my attention more than ever. It
appeared to stand directly still, and I told the passengers that something must
be wrong; it seemed to stand right there fully fifteen or twenty minutes.
Q. You were ordered to send dispatches stating what the trouble was? A. I wasn't
ordered to do so, but it was my duty, and I did so.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. Did you see the head-light? A. Yes, sir, but could not
see clear enough to distinguish anything but a light.
Q. Is the ground any higher there than at the bridge? A. It is a gradual up
grade from there until it comes level with the ground.
Q. From your knowledge, you would say that the head-light was East of the
bridge? A. I didn't know there was a bridge there.
Mr. Liston, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Thos. Liston.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Chatsworth, Livingston County, Illinois.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. Six years off and on.
Q. What is your business there? A. I am station agent and also operator.
Q. How long have you occupied those positions? A. Nearly eight years altogether.
Q. At that point? A. At different points; there nearly five years.
Q. In the employ of this T., P. & W. Ry. Co.? A. Yes, sir, and Wabash.
Q. Did you receive any orders from the Superintendent to be communicated to any
of the track men the day before this accident? A. On this Wednesday morning I
had been sick, and didn't get to the office until twenty minutes of ten; and
when I got there Watseka was calling me, and also Peoria. I received a message
from Peoria to set the switches, etc.
Q. Was anything said about the excursion train? A. I supposed that was why.
Q. Did you know the excursion train was coming? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you know it? A. I had been instructed before.
Q. That's why you inferred these special instructions were given? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it a special instruction, or is it a common thing? A. It was a special.
Q. Were you on duty the night of this accident? Yes, sir.
Q. From what time to what time? A. At 9 o'clock I came on duty, and stayed on
duty until 11 o'clock.
Q. What trains passed upon the road that afternoon? A. Our passenger trains 4
and 5 at 12 and 1 o'clock, and one in the afternoon going East, No. 16.
Q. What is the time of that train? A. 3:10.
Q. The passenger trains pass what time? A. They pass between 12:50 and 1
o'clock.
Q. The freight train went a little late that afternoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it heavily loaded? A. It had in the neighborhood of twenty cars.
Q. Ordinary train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You stayed on duty until the accident? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any passengers to leave that place that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who were they? A Bishop Judd, T. Brown and wife and Mr. Hallam and son, and
one other gentleman, but I can't call his name now.
Q. Did he live in Chatsworth? A. About the country there.
Q. Any other persons there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recollect their names? A. No, sir, except one of our bridge men was
there—Mr. Booze.
Q. What was he doing there? A. Painting our depot.
Q. You think those were the only persons there? A. There were a great number
there.
Q. Do you think of any other persons about town that were there? A. I cannot
give any others that were there.
Q. You were busy during that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you out on the platform during that time? A. Yes, sir, once or twice.
Q. What was your occasion to go out? A. I went out to check a trunk.
Q. Did anybody say anything about seeing a fire up the track? A. No, sir, I
don't remember anything about that.
Q. Did you look up the track? A. Between 8:30 and 9 I examined the switches.
Q. Did you look up and down the road? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any light? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear anybody say anything about a light? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know Mr. Brown? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say you didn't hear anything about a light? A. No, sir. I had several
inquiries wanting to know how soon the train would come. The freight was at
Gilman waiting for this train.
Q. In that connection didn't somebody say to you they had seen the head-light of
that engine? A. I have no recollection of it.
Q. If there had been a light at the bridge would you have seen it? I don't think
I could have seen it unless it was a big light.
Q. What would hinder you? A. The hills. You cannot see a head-light until it
comes to the rise.
Q. Was it cloudy that night? A. It was until about half past 11 o'clock.
Q. Didn't it rain before that time? A. I don't remember of it raining before the
accident.
Q. Didn't it rain about 11 or 12 o'clock? A. I don't remember, I didn't notice
it raining.
Q. Wasn't it cloudy all the early part of the evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you think you would have observed a fire where that bridge was by
reflection against the clouds if there had been any? A. I don't know as I would.
Q. Probably wouldn't give attention to it? A. I was very busy.
Q. You didn't hear any remarks about seeing a head-light? A. No, sir. I have
heard it since.
Q. Who did you hear say so since? A. E. M. Jones.
Q. Where does he live? A. Belongs about Chatsworth, but lives in Chicago.
Q. Is he there now? A. He was there yesterday.
Q. Who else did you hear talk about it? A. J. E. Brown and T. Y. Brown.
Q. Who else did you hear talk about it that is accessible? A. I don't remember.
There has been a good deal of talk.
Q. Have you heard any one living in that town say they had seen a light there?
A. Mr. Jones and Mr. Brown.
Q. They have said it since? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go down there that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How soon? A. I think about half past 12 or 1 o'clock.
Q. How did you happen to go? A. I was called up by one of the brakemen.
Q. Who was he? A. Mr. Lex.
Q. He belonged to the train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Walked back? A. Yes, sir. I came to the office and notified Peoria that we
wanted help as soon as possible, and they arranged to send a train from Forrest,
and then I called up all the doctors and people, and got buckets, axes, etc.,
and Mr. Osborn stayed at the office, and I went out to the wreck.
Q. Did you observe the bridge when you got there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what condition was it then? A. The flames were almost out when I got
there.
Q. Was anybody at work at them? Yes, sir, throwing water at the time.
Q. How much was burned then? A. I didn't give it any attention; only saw that it
was on fire.
Q. What did you do? A. The first thing I did was to call for Mr. Armstrong.
Q. Did you find him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do then? A. I asked him about Mrs. Gould and her daughter.
Q. Did you do anything? A. Yes, sir; helped the wounded and the dead.
Q. Did you hear anything about this pillaging and robbery? A. Not until I got
back to my office.
Q. Didn't hear it when you were there? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see anything of that sort? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Do you know what was done with the baggage, grips, etc.? Was care taken of
them by the railroad company? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What? A. The grips were all gathered up and put in my room and locked. The
trunks were carried there, and what were not taken to Peoria were locked in a
box-car by me.
Q. Did you have any conversation with anybody about their loss? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear it from them? A. No, sir.
Q. Those that were not injured, did you hear it from them? A. I heard them
talking about a great deal of robbery.
Q. Did you see anybody that had been robbed? A. I remember one circumstance; it
was a gentleman from Galesburg.
Q. What was the fact about that? A. Mr. Messler took those things off of him; he
is a Knight Templar, and they were locked in his safe until Monday, and they
were expressed to him—to his wife, rather. That's one of the cases I remember
of.
Q. Do you know anything about how that fire occurred? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about the burning of the grass? A. No, sir; they had
been burning grass along the road, but I didn't notice any fire that day.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Did you receive any order from Mr. Armstrong to look
after the bridges that afternoon? A. About 9:30 in the morning I received a
message for the section foreman to look after the bridge.
Q. What was the purport of that order? A. It was to see that, the last thing
before leaving, to examine the bridges, and see that everything was all "O.K."
Q. Where did this dispatch come from? A. Watseka.
Q. You delivered that, did you? A. Yes, sir, I stood on the platform and saw
that it was delivered to the section foreman. When I got there in the morning
the section boss had gone out on the road. About 15 minutes of 10 I got this
message. The road master asked me if I got that message, and I told him I would
see to it. After the trains go I generally go to dinner, and I didn't see any
way to deliver the message but to take it out myself. About 15 minutes of 2
o'clock I started back to the elevator to get their hand-car to take this
message out; but as I got out of the elevator, Mr. Coughlin passed me and I came
back to the depot and gave it to a boy and saw him take it to the section
foreman. About half an hour after, Mr. Coughlin went East on the hand car.
Q. Did you see him any more that day? A. I saw him in the evening.
Q. What time? A. Very close to 6 o'clock. The road master asked me if I
delivered the message, and I told him I did.
Mr. Coughlin, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Timothy Coughlin.
Q. Where do you reside Mr. Coughlin? A. Chatsworth.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. Nine years this fall.
Q. Who do you work for? A. Mr. Ennis.
Q. Who is Mr. Ennis? A. The road master of the T., P. & W.
Q. You are on the railroad under him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been in that business? A. Since the fall of '57.
Q. Are you a section boss? A. Foreman.
Q. How long have you occupied that position? A. Since the fall of '57.
Q. What road? A. Illinois Central.
Q. How long have you been employed on this road? A. Two years this fall.
Q. Why did you leave the Illinois Central? A. The Central and I had a lawsuit.
Q. What about? A. About the killing of one of my boys.
Q. And you quit them. Is that the reason? A. Yes. sir.
Q. That was the cause of your quitting? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you quit them, or did they turn you off? A. I partly quit, and was partly
turned off.
Q. Why did they turn you off? A. For suing them. The supervisor told me that Mr.
Frisbie, the Division Superintendent, said he didn't want me any longer. I was
expecting it, but found out he never said so at all.
Q. You quit on account of a false report? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you brought suit against the company before that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For killing one of your boys? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been on this road for two years? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are the duties of your position? A. To keep the track in repair, and see
that everything is all safe.
Q. See that the track is kept clear of combustible material, the bridges in
proper condition, etc.? A. Yes, sir.
Q You were in that line of business on Wednesday last? A. I was.
Q. What did you do that day? A. In the forenoon I was finishing up a piece of
track.
Q. Where was that? A. Right East of Chatsworth in the hollow. I was finishing up
there in the forenoon, and when the men were at dinner I walked over the track
because I wanted to go East in the morning. I came back and we built a bridge
out there. The orders are to clean up everything every day, so I took the old
ties and put them onto the car, and was going to put the truck in the tool
house.
Q. Where was that bridge and those old ties? A. It's a little East of
Chatsworth.
Q. How far from the bridge that burned that night? A. About two miles.
Q. What else did you do that day? A. When I got the message I went up and put
the car in the house, and I went East to the East end of the section.
Q. What time of day was that? A. I think we must have left Chatsworth before 3
o'clock.
Q. Was it before the freight train had gone East? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Before that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do when you got over there? A. I went to the East end, and we
burned some grass there on the South side of the track.
Q. Where is the East end of your division? A. One and a half miles West of Piper
City.
Q. Whose men? A. My men.
Q. What extent of ground did you burn over there? A. Only in patches; it
wouldn't burn good except where it was dead.
Q. How many places did you have fire that afternoon? A. I expect I had maybe
five or six places.
Q. Did you go to each place where the fire was, or did some of your men? A. We
were all there; when we burned a place we all left together.
Q. How far West did you come with your burning? A. We came West about a mile and
a quarter to the county line.
Q. How far is that from Chatsworth? A. Two and a half miles
Q. How far from the bridge is the county line? A. They claim it is between
seventy and eighty rods.
Q. Did you burn in the neighborhood of that bridge that day? A. East of the
bridge we did.
Q. How far? A. I cannot exactly say. I think just about between three and four
telegraph poles from the bridge East.
Q. Did you burn some West of the bridge? A. No, sir, it was all burned several
days before, West of the bridge to Chatsworth.
Q. How long before? A. I think it was a week before; and it was burned East of
the bridge to the county line before, but there was some in a little cut left,
and we burned that off.
Q. How close was that to the bridge? A. I think it was about three or four
telegraph poles.
Q. What time of day was that? A. It was either 5 or half-past 5 o'clock.
Q. Do you know which way the wind was blowing at the time? A. It was blowing
from the Southwest.
Q. Which side of the railroad was this burning on? A. On the South side.
Q. What did you do next? A. While the men were burning this—it was all burned
before this—I run down on the hand-car on to the bridge, and I was looking at
the bridge.
Q. What for? A. I had orders to examine the bridges.
Q. To what extent did you look at it? A. I was standing on the bridge and
looking off the top. I didn't go under the bridge; I examined it from the top.
Q. What did you look for? A. Anything that I could see; no particular thing.
Q. Were not looking for fire? A. I never thought of a fire.
Q. Didn't see any fire? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't go under the bridge, only on top of it? A. Yes. sir, the bridge had
been cleaned out before that; we had shoveled underneath and dug about eight or
ten feet around all the bridges. We had cleaned everything out, grass, weeds and
everything else.
Q. What kind of grass grows around there? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. Was it blue grass? A. I cannot say.
Q. Wasn't a good deal of it prairie grass and green? A. When we cut it off, it
was green.
Q. You throwed it entirely out of the way? A. Yes, sir; cleaned out underneath
all the bridges and cattle-guards.
Q. Just on each side of the piling, that had been built up with wooden
embankments, that was pretty dry, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do with this grass that you cut off? A. We always throwed it
away out.
Q. It was too green to burn at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you burn it afterwards? A. I expect, when the other grass was burned.
Q. That you don't know? A. No, sir.
Q. What time were you on the bridge that you spoke about? A. It was half-past 5
o'clock; it was about that time.
Q. Was that after the freight train had passed along going East? A. The freight
train passed me pretty near the East end of the section, between 3 and 4
o'clock, about a mile East of that.
Q. Did the freight pass over after you left or before? A. Before.
Q. It passed over it, before you were on the bridge? A. Yes, sir. I went East to
the East end. The freight passed us pretty near the East end of the section.
That would be one and a half miles East of the bridge.
Q. What time did the train pass? A. The train passed me I think about half-past
3 or 4 o'clock.
Q. You were there when it passed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you think that if sparks had dropped off you would have seen them? A. I
think I would, because the timbers were very dry.
Q. The bridge had no plank over it? A. Just the stringers and the ties.
Q. You could see down below? A. I was standing on the bridge.
Q. And could look down and see if there was any fire? A. I could see the whole
business.
Q. You left the men up there firing the grass, and went down to the bridge on
the hand-car, and were on the bridge at half past five? Then what did you do? A.
I stopped there until the men came down to the bridge on foot, and then we got
onto the hand-car and went home; got in about 6 o'clock.
Q. When you left the bridge starting for home, was the fire still burning? A,
No, sir.
Q. What had become of it? A. It had gone out.
Q. Did it go out, or did the men put it out? A. Some of the patches went out,
and the other little patches the men put out with the shovels.
Q. What did they put it out for? A. To keep it from burning.
Q. Was there anything to burn? A. Nothing in particular, only it might catch
some more grass. We always make it a rule to put fire out before we leave
anywhere.
Q. Was the grass all burned off along the South side of the track between that
fire and the bridge? A. No, sir, it was green, and had weeds in it.
Q. Were the men burning on the South or North side of the track? A. On the South
side.
Q. How do you think that bridge got on fire? A. I have no idea.
Q. You live at Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When were you at that bridge again? A. After they called me in the night.
Q. What time did you get there? A. I cannot tell you that. They called me up,
and I struck out and went down to the bridge.
Q. Did you go down on the hand-car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you see when you got down there? A. I saw the bridge was burned, and
the train all mashed up, and Mr. Armstrong sent me to put the fire out;
Q. Where? A. On the bridge.
Q. What condition did you find the bridge in at that time? A. It was burned
down.
Q. Whereabouts was it burned down? A. I guess it was about all burned up all
over.
Q. Where were the stringers? A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. Did you see any stringers? A. I didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. What was on fire? A. The piling was on fire, and there was a part of the
wooden work of the trucks on fire, and there were several sticks in the fire.
Q. Were the bulk-heads on fire? A. They were burned out.
Q. On the West side? Both sides.
Q. All the way down to the ground? A. I don't know.
Q. How far down? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. How long did it take you to put that fire out? A. It took us a good while,
because we had to throw dirt on it.
Q. Did the rain come before you put it out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the rain help put it out? A. Yes, the rain wet the dirt so it would do
more good.
Q. How long after you got out there did the rain commence? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. When did you quit working on the bridge? A. As soon as we got the fire under
control.
Q. Did you get it under control before daylight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. About how long were you at it do you believe? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. Then what did you do? A. I helped to take the dead out of the car. I stood
outside on some boards and passed the bodies down.
Q. Was that a chair car? A. I don't know; I cannot tell you what it was.
Q. And you continued to work there until morning? A. I worked there until we got
all of them out of that car.
Q. Then what did you do? A. In the morning we took the balance out as well as we
could.
Q. Did you see any robbery going on there? A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you remain there during the day? A. I did.
Q. You went upon that bridge and examined it in the afternoon. What time did you
say that was? A. Half past 5 o'clock.
Q. Where did you go after you did that? A. Home.
Q. Did you see any freight train that afternoon? A. I did.
Q. Where? A. The freight passed me about one and a half miles East of there
between half past 3 and 4 o'clock.
Q. What time did you receive your orders to look at the track? A. It must have
been after 2 o'clock.
Q. Where did you say you were at work when you received them? A. I was taking
some old ties and bridge timber up to the cars.
Q You came back to Chatsworth that night? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tobenske, being duly sworn,was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John Tobenske.
Q. Where do you live? A. Chatsworth.
Q. For how long? A; Nine years.
Q. In what business? A. On the railroad.
Q. All the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For whom? A. Illinois Central and the T. P. & W.
Q. When did you commence working on this road? A. I commenced working on this
road last April the 8th.
Q. Why did you leave the Illinois Central? A. I had a few words with the section
boss.
Q. What about? A. He was a little cross, and talked a little too much, and I
quit.
Q. Did you do something he didn't want you to do? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you fail to do something he told you to do? A. No, sir.
Q. It was a dispute about something? A. It was just about religion; that's all.
Q. What has been your duty on the road? A. Raising the track and putting in
ties—burning weeds—cutting weeds around the bridges, and cleaning it up, and all
that kind of work.
Q. When did you burn weeds, John? A. Three weeks and two weeks before that
accident happened.
Q. Did you burn any that day? A. We did.
Q. Where did you burn them? A. In Ford county. We commenced burning about a mile
and a half this side of Piper City and burned not quite to the county line. And
there were little patches along on this side of the county line, and we set fire
to them and burned them.
Q. Did you burn any this side of the county line? A. Yes, sir, we burned it off
that day.
Q. Do you know where the bridge was that got burned out? A. Yes, sir, I am very
well acquainted with that bridge.
Q. How close to that bridge did you burn that day? A. I cannot say whether it
was thirty or thirty-five rods East.
Q. Which side of the road did you burn on? A. South side.
Q. How much ground did you burn over? A. I cannot tell you exactly.
Q. Do you mean that you burned towards the bridge? A. We were burning out little
patches.
Q. How close to the bridge? A. I cannot say exactly.
Q. You didn't come West of the bridge that day? A. Not that I know of.
Q. You would have known it? A. Yes, sir,
Q. Did you see a freight train going East that day? A. It passed us on the East
side of the county line.
Q. Was that before you burned this last patch? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do after you got done burning along that track? A. Some had
shovels to stop the fire. I didn't have a shovel, I just walked along and
watched it. When we were done there was a little smoke left but that didn't
amount to much.
Q. How close to the bridge was that little smoke? A. It was that where we set
the fire.
Q. What did you do then? A. We went to the bridge. The bridge was all right.
Q. Did you look at it? A. I did.
Q. Did anybody else? A. One man got off and pushed the car along, and then
started the car when we went away.
Q. Did you go any further West than that bridge that day? A. We went home that
night.
Q. Didn't go West of Chatsworth? A. No, sir.
Q. Did the section boss go West? A. I cannot tell you. He didn't go with the
hand-car.
Q. That's all you did? A. Yes, sir; after 6 o'clock I took my dinner pail and
was not out until I was called about 1 o'clock.
Q. Were you out on the track that evening? A. Not after 6 o'clock.
Q. At 1 o'clock you were called out; what for? A. The boss called me out.
Q. What did you see when you went out? I saw a great wreckage.
Q. He called you and you came out. Did you see any fire at the time down the
track? A. No, sir.
Q. After you got out that night did you look down the track? A. I only went to
the wreck.
Q. How far is your place from the wreck? A. About two miles and a half.
Q. You had to look in that direction—how did you go down there? A. On the
hand-car.
Q. After you got on could you see a light? A. We could not see a light until we
got there.
Q. You had not been out that night before? A. No, sir.
Q. After you got out there what did you do? A. I was called on to help all I
could.
Q. They gave you directions? A. I carried water from the engine to stop the fire
on the bridge and trucks; they were burning.
Q. Did you help take care of the wounded? A. Yes, sir, and carried them up to
the cars.
Q. Did you see anybody stealing anything that night? A. I was not around there
much.
Q. Did you hear people say anything about stealing while you were there? During
that time did anybody say anything about people stealing anything? A. They were
talking, but I didn't see anybody.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. What was the condition of the bridge when you got
there; how much was burned up? A The whole bridge was burned up.
Q. Where were the stringers? A. Burned up.
Q. Where were the ties? A. Burned up.
Q. Where were those boards? A. I guess that was all burned up.
Q. How were the posts? A. Burned up about a foot and a half from the ground.
Q. What was burning when you got there? A. The trucks.
Q. Were the posts and piling burning any? A. The trucks were burning most, and I
carried water most of the time.
Q. On the North or the South side? A. I carried water to the East side.
Q. The West end didn't burn? A. It was all burned out.
Mr. Kobski. being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. John Kobski.
Q. Where do you live? A. Chatsworth.
Q. How long? A. About eight years.
Q. What have you been doing during that time? A. I have been working all the
time steady on this road.
Q. Never worked for any other road during that time? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't work any for the Central? A. No, sir.
Q. What kind of work have you been doing for this road? A. Raising the track,
and everything that was to be done.
Q. Were you at work for this road last Wednesday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was your boss? A. Tim Coughlin.
Q. You can tell us what you did that day? A. We were burning weeds.
Q. How many places? A. Three places.
Q. Where were they? A. We started about a mile and a half West of Piper City,
and close to the county line we burned another patch, and then on this side of
the county line between the county line and the bridge.
Q. How close to the bridge? A. About forty rods from the bridge.
Q. How large a spot did you burn over there—how big a patch? A. It was a small
patch, about ten or fifteen rods.
Q. That would bring you how close to the bridge? A. From the bridge to the
crossing it is eighty rods, and we started from the crossing.
Q. After you got that burned what did you do? A. We went home, and we stopped
right on the bridge. I was down and looked at the bridge, and the section boss
was down.
Q. What do you mean by down? A. I was off the car.
Q. What did you do then? A. Went home then.
Q. You say you looked at the bridge? A. Yes, sir, and it was all right.
Q. Did you walk across the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Under it? A. No, sir, on the top of it.
Q. Did you look very carefully to see how it was? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were you looking for? You were not looking for any fire? A. No, sir, we
were not looking for fire.
Q. You think you would have seen it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you seen a freight train that afternoon? A. Yes, sir, it passed us about
two miles West of Piper City.
Q. You didn't see any fire, and all the looking you did was to walk across the
bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice those timbers that were under the bridge against the posts to
hold the dirt up? A. That was built last spring.
Q. I am speaking of those old timbers to keep the dirt from falling in. A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Why did you look at that? A We can see it when we look at the bridge.
Q. Did you do it that day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why did you do that? A. In looking over the bridge that day.
Q. You mean to say you looked down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't look to see if there was any fire, did you? A. Not particularly.
We just looked over the bridge.
Q. Did you look at any other bridge that day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where? A. East of the county line.
Q. You made the same sort of examination of all the bridges? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Don't know more of this particular bridge than any other? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't think about any fire did you? A. No, sir.
Q. You came up to your home and stopped for the night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to the wreck that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any light upon the track that night? A. No, sir.
Q. Was it raining when you went down there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much of the bridge was burned when you got down there? A. It was burned
pretty near down.
Q. Was it raining very hard as you went down to the bridge? A. It wasn't raining
then; after while it rained.
Q. You say the bridge was pretty well burned up? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You think you put the fire out thoroughly, do you? A.
Yes, sir, we put it out with shovels.
Q. Were you told to put the fire out? A. Yes, sir. Sometimes when we leave fire
it goes right into the fields. It has happened lots of times that way.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. Was the section boss down to the bridge before you
were? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was on top of the bridge when you got there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did that bridge get on fire? A. I don't know anything about that.
Q. What do you think? A. I cannot say.
Q. Haven't you any opinion as to how it got on fire? A. No, sir.
Q. It did get on fire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. But you cannot think how it was done? A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lee—Q. You went down to where the section boss was on the bridge, and
walked across the bridge and looked down. If there had been any fire there you
could have seen it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You saw no signs of any smoke? A. Not a bit.
Mr. Kobski, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Mike Kobski.
Q. Where do you live? A. Chatsworth.
Q. What do you do? A. Work on the railroad.
Q. Under Mr. Coughlin? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at work there last Wednesday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of work were you doing? A. All kinds of work.
Q. What kind were you doing that day? A. Burning weeds and raising the track.
Q. Where did you burn weeds? A. A mile and a half West of Piper City.
Q. You agree with the other witnesses about where weeds were burned Wednesday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go to the bridge afterwards? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see the section boss? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was he? A. He was on the bridge.
Q. Where were you, on the hand-car? A. I was walking after it.
Q. Did you walk across the bridge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do at the bridge? A. Standing and looking.
Q. What for? A. For something, to see if it was broken.
Q. Looking for fire? A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't see any? A. No, sir.
Q. Had there been any there, you could have seen it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you notice any cinders about there from the engine? A. I cannot tell you;
I didn't see anything.
Q. Don't know whether the engine stopped there that day or not? A. No, sir.
Q. Then you went home? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear of the accident that night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you? A. I was home.
Q. Gone to bed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. They awakened you, did they? A. They rung the fire bells.
Q. Did you go down the road on the hand-car? A. No. sir, I walked.
Q. Did you see any fire as you went down there? A. No, sir, I couldn't see
anything.
Q. Was it raining as you went down? A. No, sir; after while.
Q. Did you see the bridge when you first got there? A. It was burned down.
Q. Whole thing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any fire there at the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any car standing over the fire? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you help put the fire out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do? A. I was carrying water.
Q. Where from? A. The engine.
Q. What did you do then? A. I was helping to carry the bodies.
Q. You saw this bridge about 5 o'clock and 30 minutes in the afternoon? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Went home then? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't go over the line any more until 1 o'clock at night? A. No, sir.
By Commissioner Marsh—O. When you looked at the bridge at 5 o'clock did you see
any grass there? A. No, sir.
Q. Were there any weeds there? A. We cleaned it about two weeks before that.
Q. What did you do with them then? A. We burned them.
Q. Which side of the bridge? A. North side.
Q. Any on the South side? A. Not that time. When we cleaned the bridge we
cleaned in the forenoon and burned in the afternoon.
Q. Did you have anything to cut the brush off with? Were there some willows
there? A. Yes, sir, but we didn't cut them, we cleaned under the bridge.
Q. What did you cut these willows off with? A. We did not cut them.
Q. What did you cut this brush off with? A. With the shovels.
Q. How high up? A. I don't know how high.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You say you walked down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it very dark? A. Pretty dark.
Q. If there had been any prairie fire around there you would have been likely to
have seen it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You saw nothing until you got down to the bridge? A. No, sir.
PEORIA, ILLINOIS, AUGUST 17, 1887.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Would two engines on the bridge impair the strength of
the bridge? A. Two engines could not get on the bridge at the same time.
Q. Would two engines on the train weaken the bridge? A. I don't exactly
comprehend the question in that way.
Q. Were two engines attached to this train when it went over the Illinois river
bridge? A. No, sir.
Q. Why were the two engines not run over the bridge? A. It might impair the
rollers on the draw, and the men could not open it for the boats. The bridge was
strong enough to stand the weight of two engines coupled together. I have had
two engines coupled together on this Peoria bridge.
Q. Isn't it a common thing where two engines are to the same train that they are
separated on account of the bridges? A. Yes, sir.
Q. On account of the bridges being too weak for two engines together? Yes, sir;
that is not done on this road, though I have known it to be done.
Q. If that bridge was burning at 8:30 could it have been burning until the time
you passed it—did it look like it had been burning that long? A. That's clearly
theory. I think it had been burning quite that long. It might take fire and burn
very fast, or very slow.
Q. It being put upon piling driven down, the caps upon that, the stringers upon
that, the ties upon that, then there was not much material there to make it burn
rapidly? A. No, sir. The bridge I think took fire near the top. The bottom of
the bulk-head was not on fire when I got to it.
Q. I believe you stated in Chatsworth that it looked more like a coal when you
saw it. A. I don't recollect having made any such a statement as that.
Q. Were not the timbers a good ways apart? A. Yes, sir, the ties are put upon
the stringers, and there are nine inches space between the ties. The stringers
are about an inch apart so the air can get through. Then the ties, of course,
lay right upon these stringers about nine inches apart.
Q. From the looks of the fire when you saw it, it wouldn't surprise you if that
had been burning for two hours? A. No, sir, it burned very slowly at first in my
opinion.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. The front engine had no air brakes? A. It had the
steam brake connecting with the tender.
Q. Was it in any way controllable by the engine next to the cars? A. No, sir.
Q. Was the engine next to the cars controllable by the engineer of the front
engine? A. Only by signal.
Q. Were any instructions given by which the engineer next to the cars was to
obey any suggestions from the engineer in charge of the front engine with
respect to stops? A. No special instructions were given; no, sir. Our general
instructions say the signal must be answered and obeyed.
Q. No special instructions? A. No, sir.
Q. Should not you have given such instruction? A. No, sir.
Q Why not? Suppose the engineer on the front engine had whistled to apply the
brakes, and the engineer next to the train had not responded on the instant;
might not that have been the means of an accident? A. It might, but it would
rarely happen. You can suppose a great many things.
Q. Should not the advance engineer be the one that controlled the train as to
its movements? A. They were both responsible.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Is there a system of signals among engineers running that way? A.
There is a system on all time cards, by which every one is governed; engineers,
brakemen and every one.
Q. In other instances, as well as double-headers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What has been the rule with reference to trains run by double-headers in
crossing the Illinois river bridge? A. Since I have known the bridge, they have
always separated them.
Q. For the reasons given in this instance? A. There was a year or two that Mr.
S— gave an order to never run a double-header across the bridge.
Q. When was it built? A. In'76. New posts were put in last summer.
Q. You may state whether that bridge was inspected since you became
Superintendent. A. Yes, sir, we had Robert Moore of St. Louis inspect the
bridge.
Q. When was that? A. I think it was a year ago last July.
Q. Is he an expert in such matters? A. He is, and pronounced the bridge
absolutely safe.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Who does that bridge belong to? A. The T., P. & W.
railroad. It is a part of our railroad.
Mr. Plantz, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. Chas. B. Plantz.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived there? A. The last time a little over two years.
Q. In whose employ? A. T. P. & W. Ry.
Q. How long have you been in their employ? A. Do you mean the last time?
Q. Yes, sir. A. I have been with the company off and on for eighteen years.
Q. In what capacity last Wednesday? A. Train dispatcher.
Q. How long have you been in that business? A. About eighteen years.
Q. What are the duties of a train dispatcher? A. Take charge of the trains on
the road, give them their running orders, help them in case they need any, keep
a record of their movements, etc.
Q. State in what your charge consists, and what assistance you might give. What
was your, charge? A. The only way I had charge of the line of railroad.
Q. What do you mean by that? A. I directed the movements of the trains on the
road, and kept a record of them.
Q. You gave directions as to when they should start from a point? A. Not time
card trains. They leave according to the time card.
Q. Do you make a note of the time when it starts? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What other record in respect to that train? A. Make a record in respect to
their arriving and departing at each station.
Q. Who reports? A. The agent or operator.
Q. When does he make a report? A. After it leaves.
Q. Does he state then when it arrived and departed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He don't report until it departs? A. No, sir.
Q. How about when the train is behind time? A. After it leaves I report the
arrival and departure of it.
Q. Supposing there was something irregular? A. That would make no difference.
Q. If there were any accidents, wouldn't he report that to you? A. Not unless it
was something of an extraordinary nature.
Q. What do you do with respect to making a record of the facts? A. Put them on
the back of the train sheet.
Q. When do you do that? A. Generally at the time they report.
Q. At that instant? A. Not always.
Q. Do you preserve his record so you can refer to it? A. Yes, sir; it is
generally made in the form of a message.
Q. Who puts it in writing? A. The conductor is supposed to.
Q. The station agent would report to you. Who would put that down? A. I would
put it down if I was on duty.
Q. If you were there and received it, would you put it down at that instant? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't you say awhile ago that you wouldn't do it? A. My answer to that was
in regard to delay of trains—in the matter of their reporting delays.
Q. If they report delays, they set out the cause? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In the form of a message? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it put in writing? A. Yes, sir, and put in writing on the back of the
train sheet.
Q. That applies to all the stations at which the train arrives? A. Yes, sir,
telegraphic stations.
Q. From those facts I suppose you can tell at what rate a train travels from one
station to another? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You may give the process by which you arrive at the speed. A. Take the
distance between those two stations, and the time between the departure and
arrival.
Q. Now then do you know anything about this excursion train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it running on a regular time card? A. Yes, sir; what we call schedule.
Q. Was it prepared for that train particularly? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How was it manifested—put in writing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you that now? A. I have no copy of the order.
Q. Who has? They were made in manifold sheets—I made three of them.
Q. It was running regardless of all trains? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who made this time card? A. I did.
Q. Yourself? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Three copies? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do with them? A. I delivered all three to the conductor of the
train.
Q. Who was the conductor? A. Mr. Stillwell.
Q. Where is he? A. I suppose he is in the city.
Q. You delivered all three copies to the conductor? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What would he do with them? A. Keep one, and deliver one to each of the
engineers. Let me add in addition to what I have said. I took the three copies
of the order, and there was a copy of that order in the book.
Q. Do you have in the office a copy of it? A. Yes, sir; in the train order book.
Q. That was for the use of yourself? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And those that succeeded you that evening? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he receipt for the three copies? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you that book here? A. No sir, it is in the office.
Q. Can you furnish a copy of it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you deliver them? A. He came to the window outside of the office, and
asked for his orders. I had them hanging on the hook already. I took the orders
with the book and went to the window, laying the book down before me and holding
the copies in my hand. While I read the copies of the order, he read the order
in the book, and after I had read it and he had read the one in the book, he
signed his name to the one in the book, and I delivered the orders.
Q. You delivered them to him. You don't know what he did with them? A. The train
would not leave without each of the engineers had a copy of the order in their
possession. No train leaves the union depot without that.
Q. What did they contain? A. I can give you nearly the wording of the first part
of the order, but cannot give you the time at the stations. The order commenced
like this: "Special. Engines 21 and 13 will leave Peoria, August 10th, at 7:15
P. M., and run to State Line on the following schedule, regardless of all
trains." Right in that was a list of the different stations, and the time of
their arrival at each one of those stations. The time on the order would be the
departing time.
Q. The station agent would report the time of the arrival and departure? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. It left with a schedule of time for the whole distance, and from each station
mentioned on the list? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What stations was it to stop at? A. The stations were named, but some of them
were not considered to be a regular stop.
Q. How were they to know whether they should stop or not? A. I had an
advertising paper that mentioned some of the principal stations on the road
between here and the State Line, and the train was to make regular stops at
those stations.
Q. Were they to stop at any other stations? A. Provided they were flagged, and
they were not flagged unless they had Niagara Falls passengers.
Q. Where that flag was to be exhibited you had telegraphic connections, did you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time did that train depart? A. About—from 7:40 to 7:45.
Q. Did you notice at the time when it did depart? A. As soon as I could.
Q. Why didn't you report exactly? A. Because I was up stairs and couldn't see
them.
Q. Were you the operator as well as the train dispatcher? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You don't know exactly when it started? A. Only in that way.
Q. How would it be at the other stations? A. I would take the word of the man
who sent the report.
Q. Might not he have the same difficulty? A. No, sir, he could see the train
pass him.
Q. The conditions were peculiar here, and unlike those that attended the
observation made at any other station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Here you say you were up stairs and couldn't see? A. Yes, sir. The only
question would be whether they reported the train correctly.
Q. How about the time at the stations on the line? A. We have a time that is
given to each telegraph office at to in the morning.
Q. Are they furnished with watches and clocks? A. I think most of them have.
Q. The time at the stations is the same time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where do they receive that time? A. To the best of my knowledge from St.
Louis.
Q. Where do your agents get it from? A. Right off the wires as it passes over.
Q. Its original information? Yes, sir.
Q. Have you any means of telling the Commission the time of the arrival and
departure of this train at the different stations along the line after it left
here on the evening of the 10th? A. No way, only as recorded on the train sheet.
Q. You have a record of it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you produce that? A. Yes, sir. Here it is.
Q. Is that the original? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you please read it? A.
Arrival Departure.
Peoria
7:45.
Farmdale 7:53
7:53.
Washington 8:07 8:10.
Cruger 8:20
8:20.
Eureka 8:25
8:28.
Secor 8:40
8:40.
El Paso 8:50
8:55.
Gridley 9:07
9:15.
Meadows 9:23
9:23.
Chenoa 9:28
9:32.
Weston 9:42
10:25.
Fairbury 10:85
10:41.
Forrest 10:53
11:27.
Chatsworth 11:39 11:42.
At the stations where the arrival and departure is the same, the train didn't
stop.
Q. How much of that record did you make? A. All of it.
(Copy of the original train sheet is herewith submitted as part of the evidence,
and marked Exhibit "C.")
Q. Were you at the instrument when you received the reports during all of that
time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the average speed? A. About thirty miles—between twenty-five and
thirty miles an hour outside of the delays.
Q. What time was prescribed for making the whole distance? A. Three-hours and
forty-five minutes; that was the schedule time.
Q. What rate is that an hour? A. About thirty miles an hour.
Q. That would include stops? A. Yes, sir. From twenty-seven to thirty miles an
hour.
Q. That's the way it was run so far as you know? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Those reports come from your agents along the line? A. Yes, sir, and are
entered on the train sheet.
Q. Are those sheets preserved in the office? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For what length of time? For all length of time so far as I know. I have
never known of any to be destroyed.
Q. Did you go out to this wreck? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you on duty when the information of the accident was received? A. I was
not in the office at that particular time; I was about the building.
Q. Who was at the instrument? A. These two gentlemen here. (Indicating.) I would
have gone off that night at 1 o'clock.
By Mr. Lee—What is your regular time? A. From 4 o'clock until midnight.
By Commissioner Marsh—You were at the instrument during the balance of the
night? A. I left for home probably in the neighborhood of 1 o'clock.
O. You left before the news of the accident? A. No, sir, I went home to get a
little sleep.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. The time of this train was faster than a regular
train? A. No, sir, not as fast.
Q. What is the average speed for passenger trains? A. About thirty-five miles an
hour.
Q. How many cars constitute a passenger train on your road? A. From two to five;
that's a regular train.
Mr. VanDorn, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. W. F. VanDorn.
Q. What is your age? A. Twenty-one.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Two and a half years.
Q. What is your business? A. Train dispatcher.
Q. Operator? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long since you have been a telegraph operator? A. About five years and a
half.
Q. You have been in that business that long. In what capacity were you employed
on the 10th? A. Train dispatcher.
Q. For whom? A. The T. P. & W. Ry. Co.
Q. At what point? A. Peoria.
Q. Were you on duty the evening of that day? A. Not of the 10th, I went to work
at midnight.
Q. Do you know anything of this excursion train that met with an accident? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at the instrument when the information was received before the
accident? A. No, sir.
Q. You were there when the information was received about the accident? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Who gave you that information? A. The operator at Piper City, Mr. Mason.
Q. What time did you receive it? A. Very near 12:35. It was within two or three
minutes of that time.
Q. Did you then observe what time it was? A. Not at that time.
Q. You went on at 12 o'clock? A. My regular time was 1 o'clock, but I got around
at 12; and as Mr. Plantz went down stairs, I answered in his place.
Q. What information did you receive? A. The first he said was—the engine part of
engine 21 had arrived, and reported that the balance of the train had gone
through the bridge.
Q. The first you heard was from Piper City? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The first was stating about the accident. Did you receive any instructions to
be communicated by you to anybody else. A. No, sir, only to send help and
doctors.
Q. Was that from Piper City? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the agent send that? A. Yes, sir, he sent all the information we had. The
engineer of this engine had been instructed at the wreck by Mr. Armstrong.
Q. Did you communicate the instructions to anybody? A. Yes, sir, to Mr. Mason.
Q. Who is he? A. Chief train dispatcher and train master.
Q. Was he the highest in authority here at that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know what he did with respect to those instructions? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was it? A. The first was to order an engine and caboose from Gilman to
get ready as soon as possible, and go to the relief of this train. The next was
to order a similar crew out of Forrest from the West. Forrest is five miles from
Chatsworth.
Q. Do you know whether that was done or not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you know it? A. Because I issued train orders to them.
Q. What next? A. To order the wrecking crew out of Peoria and doctors from here.
Q. Who had charge of the wrecking crew? A. Mr. Warren.
Q. Master mechanic? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Did the dispatch from Piper City state the extent of the accident?
A. They just said that the train was in the ditch.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Did it state anything more? A. They said it was on
fire.
Q. You say Mr. Warren had charge of this wrecking crew. Did it depart from here
that night? A. It left at 3:40.
Q. Do you know of what it consisted? A. Four wrecking cars, one caboose and
three passenger cars
Q. Do you know who accompanied that outfit? A. Dr. Steele, I saw him.
Q. Do you know what was done to secure the attendance of doctors? A. Dr. Steele
was notified.
Q. Who is he? A. The Company's physician.
Q. You don't know what he did do—where is Dr. Steele? A. In the building some
where.
Q. You know that he did go, but you don't know what physicians accompanied bin?
A. No, sir.
Q. How was notice communicated to Dr. Steele? A. In the first place we tried to
get him on the telephone, and then we sent a brakeman up to call him, and after
we gave him instructions through the telephone.
Q. Do you know of anything else that was done in pursuance of this notice? A.
The operator at Piper City was notified to get what help he could; also we
received a notice of the wreck from Chatsworth about 1 o'clock; two of the
brake-men had walked back to send in a report from there, and they were notified
to do the same thing, and send them over with the train that left Forrest.
Q. Do you know whether they did go? A. The operator reported they did. Fairbury
was notified to get the doctors from there and send over on our train No. 2;
they arrived at Chatsworth in the neighborhood of 4 o'clock.
Q. Did you order surgeons from any other point? A. That was all at that time.
There was one other train from Sheldon with caboose and coach; they picked up a
physician. They left the State Line at 2:30 and got to the wreck at 3:40.
Q. Were the wires working between Peoria and Piper City and Chatsworth during
all this time? A. They were until 2:40.
Q. How long were the wires down? A. Until 6:45.
Q. How could you communicate with the wires down? A. We could not at that time,
except we sent them by the way of Decatur; also over the Wabash wires by the way
of Hannibal.
Q. What was the matter with the wires? A. The depot at Farmdale burned.
Q. Were there any other trains sent from here with any assistance except those
you have mentioned? A. There was a special sent out of here in the forenoon.
Q. Who went with that—any assistance? A. Several doctors, I believe.
Q. Did any of the railroad officials go with it? A. Not with this second train;
they all went in the morning.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. When you first received this communication, you didn't
know much about it? A. No, sir, we just merely received the order.
Q. When did you learn of the extent of the accident? A. We didn't hear anything
more until about 7 o'clock in the morning in regard to the number killed. Then
it was reported that it was in the neighborhood of one hundred. Then we sent out
more physicians from both ways.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. I understood you as stating that those orders were
communicated before, and up to 2 o'clock. Was that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then
this additional assistance went from this direction after the wires were
restored? A. Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Have you a copy of the first notice you received? A.
The first notice was a verbal notice; they didn't send a message of it.
Q. Do you remember the words in the notice? A. He called us up and said: "Bad
news; the engine part of engine 21 is here, the balance is in the bridge on
fire."
Q. What else? A. That was all. He said send help and doctors as soon as
possible.
Q. You then sent word to Dr. Steele. What did you say to him? A. Mr. Mason
telephoned him about the wreck, and said they wanted him to go over and take as
many doctors as he thought necessary.
Mr. Mason being duly sworn, Was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. State your name please. A. John Q. Mason.
Q. What is your age? A. 45.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. About four yours.
Q. What's your business? A. Railroading.
Q. For whom? A. The T., P. & W.
Q How long have you been in their employ? A. Four years.
Q. In what capacity? A. Chief train dispatcher.
Q. What are your duties as such? A. I have charge of trains and train men,
dispatchers and telegraph operators.
Q. You supervise the conduct of all those men? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you on duty in the capacity mentioned on the night of the 10th of
August? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at Peoria? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know anything of an excursion train that was sent out? A. Yes, sir, I
assisted in loading it, and ordered the train set.
Q. Tell us what that consists of? The P. & P. U. R. R. Company place the train
at the depot for loading.
Q. What else did you have to do with that train? A. After the train had
departed, I had nothing particular to do with it. The dispatcher made the record
that you already have.
Q. Made the schedule and train order? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He acted for you in that respect? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you receive any information about that train after its departure? A.
Nothing except reports of arrival and departure at stations.
Q. Did you receive any reports from operators up to the time of the accident? A.
No special messages about it.
Q. What was the first information you had personally? A. I didn't get any
personal information until along the next morning; no messages directed to me.
Q. Did you get any information through anybody else? A. I heard the information
as it arrived at the office.
Q. Did you receive any information prior to the accident? A. No, sir.
Q. When did you receive the first information respecting the accident? A. As
near as I can remember it was 12:35 or 40.
Q. Where did it come from? A. The first we got came from Piper City.
Q. You were present and heard that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do? A. As soon as we got the information, I ordered this train
from Gilman; it was a freight train. I ordered the conductor to set out his
train, and take his outfit there; take all the doctors and assistance they
could, and come to the relief of the excursion train.
Q. Did you give any further directions? A. I ordered a crew out of the State
Line with a coach to do a like service. The next thing that was done was
starting our night caller out for the wrecking crew—for Mr. Warren. Mr. Markley
notified Mr. Ogden, the Assistant Superintendent of the P., & P. U., and asked
for the loan of his coach so we might take as many passenger cars out as we
could find for an emergency.
Q. Did he respond to your request? A. He did.
Q. Did you use the car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who went in it? A. Dr. Steele .
Q. At what time did he go, and how did he happen to go? A. I notified him.
Q. At what time after receiving the information did you do that? A. As soon as I
got these other crews started.
Q. He responded, did he? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he go to the wreck? A. He did.
Q. What time? A. 3:40.
Q. What relation does he sustain to the Company? A. Chief surgeon.
Q. What information did you give to him? A. All we had at the time.
Q. Did you ask him to do anything? A. Told him to get doctors, and I would hold
the train until everybody arrived that he wanted.
Q. Did he get any doctors? A. I think he notified Dr. Colter.
Q. Did he respond? A. He was away on business, but went out the next morning.
Q. Do you know of any other doctor that went with him? A. I do not, except such
doctors as he picked up along the road.
Q. Dr. Steele left about 3:40? Did you send any other doctors from here, or any
other assistance? A. I simply left that to the judgment of our surgeon. I told
him all the information we had, and that any doctors he desired to go, I would
hold the train for them.
Q. How long did you hold the train on that account? A. It was not held on that
account.
Q. When did you first receive information that persons were injured there? A.
Not until the next morning.
Q. What time? A. Between 6 and 7 o'clock.
Q. What did you do in pursuance of that? A. Sent out another train. Passed all
the doctors that showed up to go.
Q. Tell us just what you did about getting doctors. Did you send anybody to see
the doctors? A. We got all the doctors we could along the line. The information
we had was that there was sufficient help when our wrecking train got out there.
They took up a number of physicians at different points.
Q. I want to know what you did here. A. I didn't make any further effort to send
physicians from here.
Q. Did any go from here? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did they get the information that it was necessary to go? A. As near as I
can tell, they went on the request of friends who wanted them to go.
Q. Did you communicate this information generally to the public? A. I did not;
not at that time.
Q. Did anybody do that, that was connected with the railroad? A. Not that I am
aware of.
Q. Why didn't you? A. It happened at the very worst time it could have happened
as regards our ability to take care of the people that would flock down.
Q. The information got all over the city early in the morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How was the information communicated? A. Through parties that I had
communicated with that told others. Mr. Ogden called Mr. Burnett who went down
with the wrecking crew.
Q. Who is Burnett? A. General Superintendent of the P., & P. U. Ry.
Q. The information came back as soon as the wires were restored? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were you doing all this time yourself; were you making any efforts to
get these cars out there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What efforts did you make? A. I wired our connecting roads, the P. D. & E.,
the I., B. & W., the Panhandle and the Wabash, telling them the plight we were
in, and asking them to help us.
Q. Did you say anything about sending doctors? A. No, sir, because at that time
my understanding was they had all that could be of use.
Q. At what time did you get that information? A. Pretty close to 8 o'clock;
after our wrecking crew got out there.
By Mr. Lee—Q. What means did you use to notify the officers of the company? A. I
sent messengers after them.
Q. Whom did you notify? A. Messrs. Gould, Warren, Markley and Usner.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. How many cars did you send out in the morning after
the lines were restored? A. I am not certain as to the number that were in the
special.
Q. Did you furnish transportation for people generally that wanted to go out
there? A. Yes, sir, people whom I was satisfied had friends or relatives that
were injured. I made every effort to keep sight-seers out of there.
Q You aimed to accommodate all that went there for the purpose of helping? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know how many car loads you sent out? A. Four on this regular train.
Q. Something was said about a train being stopped at Forrest. Why was that done?
A. Because the crowd was so dense at the scene of the accident, that it impeded
the progress of the relief.
Q. Who ordered that train stopped? A. My understanding was that Mr. Armstrong
ordered it stopped.
Q. Was that your understanding on the day the train was stopped? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go yourself? A. No, sir.
Q. Is that all you did in the way of sending assistance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You can state what was done with the wounded. A. There were three train loads
brought in here; one got in pretty early on the evening of the 11th, the other
two later in the night, and a great many were taken care of at Chatsworth and
Piper City.
Q. Were any of these in a condition to require your assistance here? A. Every
provision was made through our Mayor and Mr. Burnett, the General Superintendent
of the P. & P. U., whom I consulted on the situation.
Q. When did the first dead arrive, do you know? A. I think that was on—I cannot
answer that positively without looking at the record; I think it was on the
evening of the ----- .
Q. Has the company in its possession, a list of those people that were killed
and wounded? A. We are getting out a very careful list.
Q. When did the first dead bodies come here, and who were they in charge of? A.
I cannot exactly state the number. Some came in on No. 5, due to arrive here at
3:15; got here at midnight.
Q. What time did that train arrive here? A. At 12:08 on the 12th. They left
Forrest at 8:25, and had to run slow.
Q. Is there any further fact connected with the accident, that has not been
stated by yourself or the other gentlemen that preceded you that you now
recollect? A. I don't recollect anything now.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. From whom did you receive the dispatches about the
true condition of affairs? A. There was no regular message, I was talking to Mr.
Armstrong in the morning as soon as I could.
Q. He gave you about the true condition as soon as he could tell? A. Yes, sir,
as soon as he could tell.
Mr. Berger, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is you name? A. R. M. Berger.
Q. Where do you reside? A. 711 Munson street, Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. About a year and a half.
Q. What is your business? A. Dealer in boots and shoes.
Q. Were you here on the 10th of August? A. I went on this excursion.
Q. What car were you in? A. Tunis.
Q. Sleeper? A. It was the first sleeper. I was in the upper half of section 5.
Q. What happened to you, anything? A. We got out as soon as possible.
Q. How soon after the train stopped were you out? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. Was there anything to hinder you from getting out? A. Only people getting out
ahead of me.
Q. Where did your car stop? A. Right over the bridge.
Q. Did you get out of the front or the rear end? A. The rear end.
Q. Was section 5 in the East or the West end of the car? A. Almost in the
center.
Q. What did you see when you first got out? A. I saw Mr. Armstrong about the
first thing.
Q. Did you observe the bridge—which side of the car did you get out? A. The
South side.
Q. Did you observe the fire? A. Yes, sir, before I got out of the car.
Q. What was the condition of the bridge—what attracted your attention to the
fire? A. I looked out and saw what was up.
Q. What window did you look out of? A. The one right under us. The first thing I
knew Mr. Parker said we are off the track, and I looked out of the window right
under me, and saw what was up. We were right over the fire. We got out as soon
as we could, and went right to the fire. The bridge had burned away, and the
rails were bent down. The first thing we did was to put the fire out.
Q. Was it blazing? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Much? A. Quite a good deal.
Q. Where was the South stringer that supported the ties. Was it in place then?
A. It was in place.
Q. How was it on the North side? A. I think it was in place too.
Q. Where was the most fire, and what part of the timbers were most consumed? A.
The stringers on both sides, and this truck under the sleeper were on fire.
Q. Was there more fire on the East or the West end? A. The wind drove the fire
up towards the wrecked cars.
Q. Did you observe one end of the sill was burned more than the other end? A. I
think the East end was burned the most.
Q. Were any of the posts burned off' at that time? A. The tops were burned off.
Q. Where were these burned off most, at the East or the West end? A. I think the
most fire had been in the East end.
Q. What means did you use to put out the fire? A. We used dirt, and got an ax
and chopped the dirt, and after while we got two pails and threw dirt upon the
fire.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. You say the rails were bent down? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How could the stringers of the bridge be in position? A. The sills on the
sides were in position. In the center, the rail was bent down.
Q. Was the rail resting on anything? I don't think it was. It was resting on the
stringer.
Q. Was that stringer bent down? A. It was broken down.
Q. Did you get the fire out before you left it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do then? A. Helped the people.
Q. Where were the other cars with respect to the bridge? A. On the other side of
the bridge.
Q. How far? A. The main wreck must have been almost two car lengths from the
bridge.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Tell what you saw and did there. A. The way we got
the fire out was to get a heavy piece of timber and knock down the ends; then we
finally got some water; then we assisted those that were in the wreck.
Q. In what position were they with respect to the wreck? A. They were so
terribly jammed in there, that it is pretty hard to tell what position they were
in; they were all fastened.
Q. How did you get them out? A. Cut the sides of the cars out, and pried them
out.
Q. Where did you get the means of doing this? We got axes that belonged to the
train.
Q. What time did the wrecking train get there? A. I cannot tell.
Q. Were you there when it came? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you remain there? A. I went to Chatsworth.
Q. When did you leave the wreck? A. We left with the sleepers just before
daylight.
Q. Had any physicians arrived before you left? A. I think there was one, and
perhaps two came down from Chatsworth. I didn't see any from Piper City. They
didn't arrive from Piper City until morning.
Q. Do you know how many came with Mr. Steele? A. No, sir. I am personally
acquainted with Dr. Steele. There were four or five other gentlemen.
Q. Did you go back to the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many physicians were there then? A. I cannot say.
Q. What time was that? A. About 8 o'clock.
Q. Can you approximate the number that were there? A. No, sir. I only knew Dr.
Steele, Dr. Will and one from Chatsworth.
Q. Did you see any other physicians working around there? A. I cannot tell.
Q. Were there any at Chatsworth? A. I think the physicians from Chatsworth
stayed there.
Q. What was done with the wounded that morning? A. They were carried back to the
sleepers and were hauled back to Chatsworth, and from there carried to the city
hall.
Q. How many did you take back with you? A. I cannot tell.
Q. Approximately. A. I cannot tell.
Q. When you returned were there many remaining at the wreck? A. I don't think
there were any live people there then.
Q. What became of Dr. Steele? A. He stayed at Chatsworth.
Q. At that time there were no wounded at the wreck? A. I don't think there was.
Q. You think you left no wounded? A. I don't think we did.
Q. And that was still before daylight? A. It must have been pretty near
daylight.
Q. They were extricated by daylight? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you at Piper City? A. No, sir, I didn't go there at all.
Q. How many dead bodies had been extricated from the wreck prior to your
leaving? A. I didn't give attention to the number.
Q. Your chief attention was directed to the wounded? A. Yes, sir; first to the
fire, and then to the wounded.
Q. Was that the case generally? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What prompted these people to care for the wounded? A. There was a great deal
of crying and groaning and calling for water, and begging earnestly for help.
Q. You acted as the others? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What about the robberies? A. I didn't see any robbery at all.
Q. Did you hear anything said on that subject that morning? A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. Did you see anybody that said they had been robbed? A. No, sir.
Q. Who were these people, if you know, that were talking about the robbery? A. I
cannot tell; most every one was talking about it.
Q. Do you know how that conversation got started? A. Some one would hear it, and
some one else would tell it. As far as I was concerned, I could not tell whether
there was any robbing or not.
Q. Everybody was professing to give attention to the wounded? A. Yes, sir. There
was one body there—a gentleman—and there was a lady came up and got his watch
out of his pocket, and said she was a friend.
Q. They generally professed to be friends? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was she one of the passengers? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I suppose before you left a great many people came from every direction? A. I
don't think there was any there at all, except what came down on the engine from
Piper City, and a few came from Chatsworth.
Q. How long did you remain there the next morning? A. Perhaps an hour.
Q. Had the wrecking train got there then? No, sir.
Q. Did you see the crew of that train at work? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. To what extent, had the wrecked cars been moved, up to the time you left
there? A. They had not been moved at all.
Q. Didn't you have to move some in order to get the people out? A. We did, some
of them.
Q. When you removed the people, you had to chop them out? A. Yes, sir. The
Chatsworth firemen were there and did a good deal towards getting the people
out.
Q. How many of them were there? A. Half a dozen.
Q. Did they have any appliances? A. Yes, sir, they had lanterns, etc.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. Did you see any evidences of neglect there on the part
of the officials of the road? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you see them doing? A. I saw Mr. Armstrong doing everything. He was
the first man I met that I knew after we got out of the car, and I asked him if
he was hurt, and he said no, he wasn't.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You spoke about seeing a lady taking a watch from a
dead man's pocket . A. He was not dead.
Q. What was said about it at the time? A. I heard no objections.
Q. How did she come to say she was his friend? A. She was helping to take care
of him.
Q. Did she say she was a friend of his? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To whom? A. To many. She said he was her husband.
Q. What position was he lying in? A. We brought him out of the wreck, and laid
him right on his back.
Q. He was conscious? A. Yes, sir. I think she was the gentleman's wife.
Q. You spoke about being on the first sleeper., Was the West end on the track?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What position was the other end of that car in? A. Jammed into the other
coaches.
Q. Was it on the rails? A. The wheels were.
Q. What wheels? A. The trucks. The rails were not on the track. The car was
raised up and had telescoped those cars ahead of us.
Mr. Stillwell, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. J. W. Stillwell.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Almost 12 years.
Q. What is your business? A. Railroad conductor.
Q. How long have you been engaged in that business? A. Since the 7th day of
April, 1876. I have been railroading since the fall of '69.
Q. In the employment of what road? A. The T., P. & W.
Q. How many years have you been in their employ? A. Almost 12 years.
Q. How many years as conductor? A. Almost 12 years—next spring.
Q. Were you a conductor on a train on the 10th? A. I was.
Q. What train was it? A. The "Niagara Falls" train.
Q. Of how many coaches and engines did it consist? A. Two engines and fifteen
cars. Six sleepers, two chair cars, five coaches, the baggage car and Mr.
Armstrong's car.
Q. Were there passengers in Mr. Armstrong's car? A. Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Parker
and his wife, Mrs. Gould and daughter and the porter.
Q. What engines were they? A. Engines 21 and 13.
Q. What was engine 21? A. It was a freight engine with a steam brake on her
drivers.
Q. What time did it leave Peoria? A. 7:45.
Q. What was its destination? A. Niagara Falls.
Q. Were you to go with the train? A. To the State Line.
Q. How far is that? A. 111 miles.
Q. You stated the hour at which it departed? A. Yes, sir, 7:45.
Q. Did you have any schedule or time card? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the train run in conformity with that? A. As near as possible.
Q. Will you show it? A. I will, but would like to retain it.
Q. Will you please hand it to the stenographer, and let him make a copy of it?
A. Yes, sir.
[A copy of the train order is herewith submitted as a part of Mr. Stillwell's
evidence]
"August 10th, 1887. Order No. 18—C. & E. Special. Peoria.
Special train engines 21 and 13 will leave Peoria at 7:45 p.m. August 10th, and
run
from Peoria to State Line on the following schedule, regardless of all
trains:...[train schedule omitted]
Q. Did you give a receipt for that? A. Yes, sir, in the train order book; We
read it over.
Q. Did you have more than one? A. I had three, and delivered one in person to
each of the engineers.
Q. Who were those engineers? A. McClintock and Sutherland.
Q. You run out on that schedule; you aimed to run about on that time? A. We
didn't get out on time, and of course lost a little time.
Q. How many, and at what stations did you stop? A. We stopped at Washington,
Eureka, El Paso, Gridley, Chenoa, Western, Fairbury, Forrest and Chatsworth.
Q. What did you stop at Chatsworth for? A. For passengers.
Q. Did you stop for any other purpose than for passengers? A. At Western we
pulled out a draw bar and took in a car at Forrest in the place of it.
Q. Did the car that you set out have air brakes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the one that replaced the car you set out have air brakes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any means of knowing when the accident happened? A. I cannot tell
exactly; it was near 11:40; it was between the two stations.
Q. In what car were you when the accident happened? A. I think it was car No.
13.
Q. That was one of the coaches that was destroyed? A. I believe it was.
Q. What happened to you there—what first attracted your attention? A. I felt a
jar from the cars ahead of me. The passengers all jumped up—I wasn't scared, and
didn't think of any accident, and told them to sit down, and at the same time
reached for the bell cord.
Q. Where were you when you stopped? A. I was between the floors of two cars, as
near as I could tell.
Q. How did you get out of there? Q. I got out myself. I was among the first to
get out.
Q. What did you see first? A. My first sight was to see fire.
Q. How far were you from the fire? A. I cannot tell you exactly.
Q. What fire was it? A. The bridge. I didn't wait to measure any distances.
Q. It was not a car on fire? A. No, sir, the fire was kept down.
Q. Who did you see in that connection? A. I cannot tell you who all I did see.
Q. What injuries did you receive? A. When I first got out I didn't think I had
received any. The first thing I knew of it was my knee giving away, and then I
found that I had a cut in my leg about 13 inches long, and one on my back about
6 inches long. The first thing I did was to get men started to putting out the
fire.
Q. You were stunned? A. No, sir, I knew what I was about.
Q. You put everybody you could to putting out the fire? A. Yes, sir, that was
the first thing.
Q. What sort of fire was it? A. It was not a flame when the engine went over. I
would judge from the looks of it there was no flame until we went over.
Q. That was your impression? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You cannot tell the position of any of the timbers? A. No, sir.
Q. Which side was burning the most? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. With respect to position, which end? A. The East end was where it was
burning.
Q. Was it more depressed than the west end? A. I don't think the West end
was depressed. I left in the morning.
Q. To what extent did it burned before you left? A. The bridge was all torn out
and a great deal of it had burned. We had to use everything we could to smother
it out.
Q. Did you pull any of the timbers out? A. Other men did; I didn't.
Q. After giving attention to the fire, then what was done about the wounded? A.
Everybody went to work, getting them out the best they could. Every possible
attention was given to them by everybody.
Q. At what time did you leave? A. I cannot tell you.
Q. Was it daylight? A. Just about.
Q. Were the wounded all removed from the wreck before you left? A. No, sir.
Q. Did they take any with you? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you go? A. To Chatsworth.
Q. D)id you wait for the sleepers? A They went at the same time I did.
Q. What became of the sleeper that was over the bridge? A. I don't know.
Q. Were the dead removed while you were there? A. There were dead taken off, but
none on the train that I was on.
Q. Had any of the wrecked cars been removed? A. No, sir.
Q. What time did you leave Chatsworth? A. About noon, or a little after, of that
day.
Q. What would you say of the condition of that train before the accident? A. I
should say that it was in perfect condition. It was in perfect condition all the
way, with the exception of pulling out that draw-bar.
Q. How did that happen? A. It stripped the threads off.
Q. Was it an old car? A. No, sir.
Q. What was the character of the cars? A. They were good and sound cars.
Q. Did they belong to the road? A. Yes. sir.
Q. What sort of a car did you put in at Forrest? A. A Wabash car.
Q. Was it a good car? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know the car prior to that time? A. Yes, sir, I have seen it there:
it runs between Forrest and Streator.
Q. Did you know whether your cars were old? A. They had been rebuilt.
Q. There was no particular weakness? A. Not in any way. Our air was in good
shape, and was tested twice; Mr. Armstrong was with me: the engineers had
everything in order before we started.
Q. Do you know in what condition the brakes on the Wabash car were? A. We tested
them before we started. On our road we always test them before we start.
Q. Had any physicians arrived at the wreck before you left? A. Yes, there was
quite a number.
Q. Dr. Steele was there? A. Yes, sir, I think he came soon after I got up to
Chatsworth. I remember seeing him there
Q. Were any of the railroad officials there besides yourself? A. Mr. Armstrong
and Mr. Parker.
Q. Did any arrive there after the accident and before you left? A. I saw a good
many at Chatsworth during the day; I don't remember seeing any at the wreck
Q. Who is the road master? A. Mr. Ennis.
Q. Where does he live? A. Gilman, I think. He was there. There were several
trains came in from both ways.
Q. How long did you remain at Chatsworth? A. I got there about daylight, and it
was a little after noon when we got away.
Q. Did you have an opportunity to see what attention was given to the wounded?
A. I did.
Q. Did you see any physicians? A. Yes, in the town hall, and in the school
house, taking the best of care of them.
Q. Did you see any from Peoria? A. Dr. Steele was the only one I knew. There
might have been dozens of others there.
Q. Is there anything more you know that you have not told that would throw any
light upon the matter being investigated? A. Nothing in particular.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. Did you see anything like robbery? A. No, sir, I
didn't see any robbery.
Q. You were the conductor of that train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You took up the tickets? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car were you in at the time of the wreck? A. I was in the middle of the
coaches; I think it was coach No. 13. I have forgotten just how the cars were
arranged.
Q. When your car passed over that bridge do you think it passed over on the
rails, or do you think when it struck the East side of the bridge that it jumped
off'? A. It is impossible for me to answer that. I cannot tell you how we did
pass over.
Q. You got out yourself? A. Yes sir.
Mr. Parker, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name? A. E. A. Parker.
Q, Where do you reside? A. in Peoria.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. For the last three years.
Q. What is your business? A. Train dispatcher in the employ of the T., P. & W.
Q. Did you have anything to do with the excursion train that left Peoria on the
10th of August? A. No, sir.
Q. I mean as train dispatcher? A. No, sir.
Q. Were you a passenger on that train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present at the accident? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what car? A. Coach No. 11.
Q. What position in the train was it? A. Second in the train.
Q. What was before it? A. The baggage car.
Q. Who were in the car? A. Myself and wife, Mr. Armstrong, Mrs. Gould and
daughter, and the porter.
Q. What first attracted your attention that anything was wrong? A. It was done
so quickly that I couldn't determine what was wrong.
Q. Were you awake? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you up? A. No, sir.
Q. Gone to bed? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything of any fire before you got off the car? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see anything after you got off? A. I saw some embers, I could not
determine what it was.
Q. Were you hurt? A. Not to speak of.
Q. Did you ascertain what the fire was? A. No, sir.
Q. What were you doing? A. Trying to get my wife out.
Q. Who assisted you? A. There were a number there; I can give the names of two
or three.
Q. How long was it before you got her released? A. From an hour to an hour and
fifteen minutes.
Q. I suppose your attention was given to that matter all the time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do then? A. She was carried back to the embankment, and I stayed
with her, and didn't go to the bridge at all.
Q. Did you observe who arrived there? A. There were a number of persons came
there, but I don't know who they were.
Q. Did you see Mr. Armstrong? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was he doing? A. A little of everything.
Q. And your attention was given to your wife? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You could see what he was doing in a general way, but not in particular? A.
He came to me the first.
Q. Did he remain with you until Mrs. Parker was released? A. Not altogether.
Q. What time did you leave the wreck? A. A little past 3 o'clock that morning.
Q. Where did you go? A. To Chatsworth.
Q. Did you return to the wreck? A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see any doctors there? A. I saw a number that I supposed were
physicians. I saw Dr. Steele and Dr. Will.
Q. What time did you see them? A. I think Dr. Will was on the train.
Q. Did you see him at the wreck? A. No, sir, I don't know that I did.
Q. How long did you stay at Chatsworth? A. Remained there until about noon.
Q. Where did you go then? A. To Peoria.
Q. Have you been back since? A. No, sir.
Q. Was there anything unusual in the make up of that train? A. No, sir.
Dr. Steele, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. How long? A. Fourteen years.
Q. What is your business? A. Physician and surgeon.
Q. Are you in the employ of the T., P. & W.? A. Yes, sir, as local surgeon.
Q. You were in that business on the 10th of this month? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was your attention called to the fact of the wreck? A. Yes, sir.
Q. At what time? A. At 2 o'clock in the morning.
Q. Who called you attention? A. Mr. Scott, a brakeman.
Q. What did you do in pursuance of that notice? A. I told him I would be there
in 20 minutes.
Q Who did you meet at the depot? A. Different employes, operators and one or two
others.
Q. Did you receive any directions there from any of the officers of the road? A.
No. sir.
Q. Were you requested to go and see the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That's your duty? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you take any other doctors with you? A. No, sir, not from Peoria.
Q. What did you do in that respect? Did you notify anybody to go? A. No, sir.
Q. Why? A. In the first place, when the messenger came, I didn't think of the magnitude of the accident.
Q. What was your information in respect to the accident? A. The messenger said the train had gone into the bridge, and it was supposed that there were a great many killed. When
we got to the depot there were a good many speculating about it. I supposed we were going out immediately. In the meantime there were no other news to get any further information. I supposed this about taking any other surgeons, knowing the physicians at Piper City and Chatsworth, and when I have been called before, I have always had adequate help, and I supposed the wreck was exaggerated.
Q. At that time you had no such information as led you to believe the extent to be as large as it was? A. No, sir.
Q. At what hour did you leave? A. About 3:30 I think.
Q. Did you go to the wreck? A. No, sir. I wasn't there at all.
Q. Where did you go? A. To Chatsworth.
Q. What time did you get there? A. About 7 o'clock.
Q. What was the distance? A. Seventy miles.
Q. You went on this wrecking train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who else went? A. Mr. Scott was the only citizen, and Mr. Burnett, Mr. Gould, and the road master, I think; I don't know his name.
Q. Did you take up any doctors on the way? A. At Fairbury there were five got aboard and there were quite a number of other persons with them.
Q. Who were these physicians? A. I knew Dr. Barnes; I don't think I knew any of the others. A previous train had gone over.
Q. When you arrived there, what doctors did you find? A. I think there were about 15, including our party.
Q. You say you found about 15? A. Yes, sir, including our party.
Q. The wounded were there? A. Yes, sir, the largest number.
Q. About how many did you find there? A. I cannot say; they were scattered around; some were in the engine house, and some in the school house.
Q. Did you give attention to them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had their wounds been dressed before you got there? A. Some of them.
Q. Are you prepared to say about how many were there? A. No, sir, I am not prepared to say how many.
Q. Tell us what you did with respect to taking charge of the wounded? A. I don't think I could be considered as having taken charge. I made it a point to see every one. After looking them over, such as needed immediate attention, I gave them some. I gave some directions to the doctors. I began to dress the wounds as I came to them after I had gone over and seen the ground, and had seen the nature of the wounds and injuries.
Q. Were those doctors taking hold? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you do anything towards organizing a nursing force? A. Everything had been done. The ladies had come in there, and there were two or three ladies to each patient. If I had criticism to offer, I would say there were too many there.
Q. Did you go to Piper City? A. No, sir.
Q. Were there doctors there? A. I understood they had plenty of doctors there.
Q. Can you give us a rough estimate of the number of wounded? A. I cannot.
I was so busily engaged that I didn't take the pains to inquire about that.
I was there 48 hours.
Q. Were any of the wounded removed from there while you remained; A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Did you give attention to the removal of them? A. Yes, sir. I did the
second day.
Q. Where were they taken to from there? A. The most of them to Peoria. Some
were sent on and I don't remember whether any were left on the Way over or
not.
Q. They were pretty much all removed before you left? A. I think all but six, with the exception
of a few that were placed in private residences.
Q. Were they furnished medical attention? A. Yes, sir, I arranged with Dr. True
to oversee them, and see that they were properly cared for.
Q. What attention was given to their necessities aside from mere medical
attention? A. Everything that could be done. They had everything that they needed.
Q. Did you give attention to that? A. We all did what we could. There was wine.
and everything brought in. and there was plenty of ice.
Q. What was done in that respect, was done under your charge? A. Yes, sir.
Q. As to the furnishing of these delicacies, who furnished them? A. My
opinion is that they were furnished by the people, and I think the railroad
company furnished some things afterwards.
Q. Where did the ice come from? A. I think it came from Peoria.
Q. Were there many people at Chatsworth looking after these wounded? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Was there a crowd there? A. You might call it a crowd.
O Were they in the way? A. I think they were.
Q. Was there any interference with the care of the wounded by reason of
the crowd?' A. We had a good deal of difficulty in keeping them out. I think
it was largely curiosity. The second train that reached there, the patients in
the upper room were very much disturbed by so many people coming into the
room. It was almost impossible to keep them out.
Q. Attention was given to that subject? A. Oh yes, sir.
Q. When you arrived there in the morning there were physicians there already?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Enough to take care of the wounded? A. I think they could have gotten
through.
Q. Was the force sufficient with your assistance? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did more physicians arrive after vou got there? A. In the afternoon quite a
number came in from Canton, and one of our own local surgeons.
Q. When these last surgeons arrived did you have any use for them? A. One or two
of the Canton doctors came up to me and said. "You don't seem to have anything
for us to do, and have gotten everything in good shape." I don't know of any
physician that came over that afternoon that dressed a wound, unless it was Dr.
Colter.
Q. How many doctors are in the employ of the Company? A. I cannot say.
Q. Did you see any others there? A. Yes, sir, Dr. Shinn, of Chenoa.
Q. Any more besides Dr. Shinn from Chenoa? A. I cannot say.
Q. Did you understand them to say that you didn't seem to need them in the sense
that you hadn't given them attention, or did they mean that there seemed to be
no necessity for them? A. That there seemed to be no necessity.
Q. Is there any further fact about this matter that you know of? A. I don't
think there is. I would like to say this; in one of the papers I saw a statement
that it was stated by a physician, that he thought there were twenty persons who
lost their lives for lack of medical attention. I believe that there was not a
single person lost his or her life from lack of medical attention. I think that
the injuries received were of such a character that they would have died whether
they had medical attention or not.
Q. How many died at Chatsworth? A. I cannot tell.
Q. Did any die while you were there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. As many as twenty? A. I think not.
Q. Do you know how many were dead at the wreck? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know how many have died since the wreck? A. I do not.
Q. How many died while you were there? A. I cannot say.
Q. Do you remember anything approximating the number? A. No, I wouldn't like to
say. There were not very many died.
Q. Have as many as twenty died since the wreck? A. I wouldn't want to say; I
have paid no attention to it. I have paid no attention to those things that I
didn't regard as absolutely necessary. I gave attention to the wounded, and saw
that they were taken care of.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. You say there were five other physicians got on at
Fairbury? A. Yes, sir, I think it was five.
Q. Did you get more information at Fairbury? A. Nothing definite. There were
some rumors at Eureka.
Q. Why did those doctors get on there? A. I suppose they were notified; in fact,
Dr. Shinn told me that he had been notified in the night.
Q. You don't know what their notice was? A. No, sir.
Q. You thought from the information that it was not necessary to take anybody
else? A. I looked at it in that way. Always before, the local physicians at the
places had been plenty, and I knew they had a number of physicians at Forrest
and Chatsworth. I reflected about this matter of taking more men at the station
before we started. The reason was that we were expecting to go all the time. I
didn't know how long it was going to take to make up this train.
Q Was it Mr. Mason that notified you? A. I suppose so, but Mr. Scott came for
me.
Q. What did he say to you? A. He said the Niagara Excursion had gone into the
bridge, and he was afraid there were a great many killed. I said I hope it is
not as bad as that, and said I would be down to the depot in 20 minutes.
Q. Were you told to get assistance if you thought it was necessary? A. I don't
think I heard anything of that kind.
Q. Some gentleman stated here that they tried to call you by telephone, and then
sent a brakeman to call you, and told you to be the judge of that yourself. What
time was that? A. it was about 2 o'clock in the morning, and it was something
after 3 when we left the depot.
Q. How far is it to Fairbury? A. About 60 miles, I think.
Q. Ten miles from Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir.
Dr. Will, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. Were you aboard of the train when this accident happened? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are a physician? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many years practice? A. Nineteen.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. Tell us what you saw there. What car were you in when the accident happened?
A. The forward end of the second sleeper. About 20 minutes after 11 o'clock I
went in from the front platform where I had been sitting smoking, and prepared
to go to bed, my wife having already been asleep perhaps half an hour. I
undressed and went to bed, and was getting comfortably located, when I felt the
peculiar motion of the cars, and thought we were off the track. That was my
supposition as it occurred to me. We came to a stand still, and I raised the
window and looked out, and found that tinder the car in front of us, that the
flames were creeping up over the bridge, and the presumption with me was, that
the car was on fire I jumped up in bed and dressed myself as quickly as
possible, and told them to take their time, and I would go out and see if danger
was threatening us. I went out on the platform and took a note of matters, and
came back and told them to take their time, but be as speedy as possible, and
not to get excited. We took our things out, and then I went to the fire; there
were others fighting the fire. I never for a moment supposed that the state of
affairs existed that did on the other side of the ravine. I left the bridge and
crossed the ravine. It was quite dark, the fire of course giving some light. As
I crossed the ravine I stumbled over a man, and asked him if he was hurt, but he
didn't say anything. I thought possibly that he was the only one hurt. As I
proceeded a man asked me to take the stove off of him "for God sake." I got up
over the side of the car to release a man but found I could not, and then I
turned my attention to a woman; I attempted to lift her, but could not on
account of her weight. Then I saw a child dead at my feet, and I felt that I
could not remain there alone, and I said I cannot do anything for you alone, but
will see if I can get some assistance, and I met some men and we went back to
get this lady out of the ruins, and then I tried to attend to her injuries. I
went back and four or five went to the assistance, and by that time we had
several more out, and went to the sleepers to get some sheets and pillows to use
as bandages. From that time on I know very little. They were all gotten out. I
did the best I could until morning. I don't know how long it was until the
engine arrived from Chatsworth; it was comparatively a short time. At a quarter
of 4 o'clock the train had gone with the wounded. I superintended the removal of
them, taking those that I thought could stand the trip. We carried them on
improvised stretchers, and the train was full with the wounded—all we could get
on; and as the train pulled out, I saw some lying on the platform.
Q. Had any other physicians arrived there before the train left? A. Not that I
was aware of.
Q. Your attention was centered upon these wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I suppose there were others? A. I was on both sides of the wreck.
Q. In the neighborhood of 4 o'clock most of them were placed on the train? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When did those go to Piper City? A. About the same time.
Q. How were they removed to Piper City? A. On the cars.
Q. Did you superintend putting them on the cars? A. I indicated who should be
taken.
Q. Why did you indicate to send them to Piper City? A. I did not know to which
train they were sent.
Q. Most of them were put in the sleepers? A. Yes. sir.
Q. Did you leave there with the train? A. I remained there until the train had
returned.
Q. What were you doing in the interval? A. I was attending to those remaining on
the ground.
Q. Why were they not sent? A. There was not room.
Q. What time were those removed that you were giving attention to while the
train was gone? How long did they stay there? A. Till about 6 o'clock, I
think; I wouldn't be certain.
Q. The last got away about daylight? A. Yes, sir; I went with these.
Q. Did you see any of the dead? A. I counted 60 dead.
Q. Where were they taken out? A. The majority of them were removed
from the debris. I counted 60 in and around the wreck.
Q. The principal attention was given to the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got to Chatsworth did you meet any other physicians? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you remain at Chatsworth? A. Until about noon, when the train
left for Peoria. I came on that train.
Q. Up to the time you left, had more physicians arrived? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had Dr. Steele arrived there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was done with them at Chatsworth? A. Placed in the town hall. When I
got there, surgeons were in attendance. I found them at work, and then I worked
until noon.
Q. What was the condition of the wounded with respect to care and attention had
or were receiving? A. They were receiving as good attention as it was possible
to give them.
Q. Was there a sufficient force present? A. I think there could have been better
service rendered by a larger number, but yet they were doing very well.
Q. At the time you left, all had received attention? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you think the force there was adequate.? A Yes, sir.
Q. Was there sufficient assistance there in the character of nurses? A. Yes,
sir, there were ladies there. I dressed perhaps a half dozen after I got to
Chatsworth.
Q. Do you know how many died at Chatsworth that day? A. I don't know, sir. I am
not certain that any died.
Q. There were not as many as 20 died there? A. Not that I was aware of.
Q. Were you back to the wreck any more? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you been to Chatsworth since? A. I went there the next day with the
relief committee from this city.
Q. How did you find things when jou got there? A. Far better than when l left
the day before, and everyone seemed to be in about as good a condition as they
could well be.
Q. Did they have ice and such things? A. Yes, sir, we took several tons of ice
from Peoria.
Q. This committee was furnished free transportation3 A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there ice there belore ' A. Yes, sir, it had been furnished In one of the
butchers.
Q. Do you know anything more about this matter that would throw light upon the
condition of the wounded? A. I don't know that I do. I suppose I am the
physician to whom Dr. Steele referred. The words were put into my mouth by a
newspaper reporter. I simply want to say that it was without any authority from
me at all. I made a remark like this: that if we could have had surgical
attention on the field that morning, we might have saved several lives, but that
didn't apply to Chatsworth.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. Did you see any indications of robbery? A. In the
instance of one lady whom I had occasion to examine, I saw what I took to be a
gold watch and chain, and passing on to a case or two after that, and returning,
I found it gone. A number of valises were opened in a manner that indicated that
they had been cut open or torn open and the contents pulled out.
Q. Did you hear any remarks about it that night? A. Not on the part of any
wounded. I know of several instances in which valuables were given to persons. I
know some money was given to me in the presence of my wife. In another case a
gentleman took some money from the pockets of his friend, and that, in the
presence of witnesses whom he called together to observe what he had done.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Were those valises scattered around the wreck? A. No, sir, they
were on the South side of the wreck, and probably six or eight of them all in a
bunch.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. They had been carried there? A. They were not there at
first.
Q. Describe the condition of the bridge when you first saw it. A. I saw the
flames shooting up from the side of the bridge, but made no careful
investigation.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. The valises you spoke about, do you think they were
cut open by friends? A. There was a young man from Abingdon who stood by me—I
had secured an umbrella from the sleeper, and during the rain we stood together,
and we stooped down to examine them, and three had been cut an inch or two, from
the looks.
Q. Parties looking for their friends' things, wouldn't they look in those
valises? A. I should think not.
Q. The clothes had been pulled out of them? A. It would appear to me that way.
Q. I suppose there were all kinds of grips? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any hand grips? A. Yes, sir, some laid wide open and were not locked. They
were laying wide open about fifteen feet from the wreck.
By Commissioner Rinaker—Q. Manifestly had been carried there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see anything that would indicate there were pick-pockets present? A.
Yes, sir.
By Commissioner Rogers—Q. I suppose you had a pretty good turnout from the
sleepers? A. Not a very large number.
Q. Did you ask anybody that didn't respond? A. Yes, sir. When it came to taking
parties back to the sleepers we had difficulty in securing help. I asked a
number personally to assist.
Q. Did they seem to be passengers or employes? A. They seemed to be passengers.
The most aid was from the fire company at Chatsworth.
Q. How did the train men act? A. I didn't distinguish them. We were working in
the dark all the time until the Chatsworth people came.
Q. Do you know the names of any that failed to give any assistance? A. No, sir,
I do not. I presume they were from the sleepers, as it was at a time when no one
had been able to get there.
Mr. Kennedy, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. You left here on the 10th of August last? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Twenty-two years.
Q. What is your business? A. Book-keeper.
Q. Were you on the train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car? A. Tunis.
Q. You were present at the accident. Tell us what you saw. A. I judge that it
was about a quarter of 12; I think my wife had spoken before that it was 11:45.
I noticed we had a sensation like four waves. It left us directly over this
burning bridge.
Q. You hadn't gone to bed? A. No, sir. I noticed the flames and smelled the
smoke. I had pulled up the window, and the smoke came drifting in, and I told my
wife she would have to get up and get out, and told her not to get excited. I
thought the car was on fire. After putting my wife on the South side of the
track I rushed up to the wreck, and about the first person I saw was Mr.
Armstrong, and he said, "For God sake do all you can for me." I told him I
would. Everything seemed to be in darkness, all the lights were out in the front
cars, and we didn't know what to do at first. We got the lanterns from the train
men, and found there was a most terrible wreck. We got the axes from the
sleepers, and commenced breaking windows, and cutting holes in the cars, and did
everything we could to get the dead and dying out. I worked there for quite a
while, and then I went down to the fire and helped to put it out. I noticed that
both sides were burned about equally and I thought it was an incendiary fire on
that account. If it had occurred from the dropping of cinders, it would be more
than likely that one side of the bridge would be burned more than the other; as
it was, both ends were about equally burned. The forward trucks of our car just
got over the chasm, and the center trucks fell in.
Q. What had become of the sills and ties? A. The center one had fallen in.
Q. And this fire that you saw, was on the East and West ends? A. And some in the
center where the stringers were burning.
Q. Were they burned pretty near in two? A. I didn't pay much attention to that.
It seemed to me to be more on the ends of the bridge at that time.
Q. The ties had fallen in? A. Yes, sir.
Q. After giving attention to the bridge, what did you do then? A. We went back
to the wounded. I got a number of blankets out of the cars and brought them to
Dr. Will, and we conveyed the wounded from time to time to the sleepers, such as
were able to be carried.
Q. Did you stay there until the wounded were all taken care of? A. I thought so.
Q. Which train did you go on? A. I don't know what train it was.
Q. What time did you get back to Chatsworth? A. I don't know, but I think it was
about 4 o'clock in the morning.
Q. Did you aid any at Chatsworth? A. Yes, sir, I went through the hospitals. The
wounded were brought in on the same train.
Q. What time was it when you returned to the wreck? A. I judge it was about 6
o'clock.
Q. What were you doing there? A. I was looking around the wreck, and saw them
getting out the dead bodies.
Q. Did you see Mr. Warren there with his wrecking train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you stay there until the dead were all taken out? A. When I left
Chatsworth they said there were 63 dead there, and I saw 13 taken out of the
wreck, and when I left they were digging a pit for the purpose of putting up the
derrick.
Q. Was it supposed when you left there that all the dead were out? A. There were
14 taken out in ten minutes.
Q. Had all of the wrecked cars been moved when you left? A. Portions of them
had.
Q. How were they moved? A. The derrick was put up; I paid very little attention
to the manner.
Q. Did you see any robbery? A. The only case of what I supposed was robbery was
quite a heavy lady; she was dead, and had a large watch, an engraved one, and it
had probably jumped out of her gown. A little later on, I noticed that it had
disappeared. There was very little light.
Q. Did you notice valises that had been cut open? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were they the same ones that Dr. Will mentioned? A. I think so.
Q. Did you see any others? A. I saw a lot of pocket-books there.
Q. How far were they from the train? A. I saw some probably 100 feet away.
Q. What was the condition of the pocket-books? A. They looked like they had been
thrown away; they were all empty.
Q. What time did you leave there? A. About noon.
Q. Did you stop at Chatsworth again? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do there? A. My wife and I came back to Peoria.
Q. Did you have occasion to visit the wounded again? A. Yes, sir.
Q. To what extent? Were they receiving such assistance as they needed? A. I saw
a number there that I took to be surgeons, and they were giving them all the
attention they could.
By Mr. Lee—Q. Did you see any of the wounded that lacked attention? A. No, sir;
I never saw such devotedness.
Q. Did you go to Piper City? A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. In rendering assistance to the wounded, did you have occasion to apply to
anybody that neglected to respond? A. I wouldn't like to mention any names.
Q. Were they indifferent? A. Yes, sir, some were smoking cigars.
Q. Who were they from appearances? A. Passengers on the train. I want to say a
word in favor of Mr. Armstrong. He was doing everything he could to assist the
wounded, and to put out the fire. It was through his and my assistance that we
got the fire out. We made a battering ram and knocked down those heavy timbers
that were on fire.
Mr. Naegle, being duly sworn, was examined in chief by Commissioner Rinaker, and testified as follows:
Q. Where do you reside? A. Peoria.
Q. What is your business? A. I am in the saloon business.
Q. How long have you lived here? A. Eight or nine years.
Q. Were you aboard the excursion train that was wrecked? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What car were you in? A. The second sleeper.
Q. What attracted you attention to the accident? A. About nine years ago I lived
at Chatsworth, and Forrest the year after that I met a gentleman on the train
and we were smoking cigars and talking, and when we got close to Forrest I asked
him to come out on the platform and I would show him where we used to
live. Between Forrest and Chatsworth he made a motion to go to bed, and I said
wait a minute, we are very near Chatsworth, and in a moment I will show you
where we used to live. He saw the building and went in and I stopped on the
platform, and then I went in and took a glass of water and prepared to go to
bed. Mr. Tucker was just getting into the upper berth of No. 3 and he said hand
me your things and I will put them away. In the act of taking off my coat I felt
ajar and I said we are off the track. I ran out and saw the fire right in front
of us; I tried to keep the folks quiet and told them not to get excited. I
assisted in putting out the fire as much as I could. After that I went up to the
engine to find out whether they were hurt. I heard the voice of Mr. Rogers, the
fireman—I could not see, it was so dark. I heard them say McClintock was dead,
but Sutherland was all right. I helped two or three to get out of the way, and
one man said, "For God sake don't take hold of my arm, it is broken." We got
some pillows and then I went back to the fire.
Q. To what extent had it burned the bridge? A. Both ends of it seemed to be
still burning.
Q. Did you assist in putting the fire out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do then? Did you give attention to the wounded? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Continued to help? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you leave there? A. I left on the first train coming back to
Chatsworth. I was anxious to telegraph.
Q. Did you return to the wreck? A. Yes, sir, Mr. Tucker and myself both went
back.
Q. When you left had all the wounded been sent away? A. I don't think they had
all gone.
Q. Were there any when you returned to the wreck? A. No, sir.
Q. What did you do then? A. Just stayed around all that day in the cars. We
tried to find Mr. Godel. I knew he was in the wreck and we were looking for him.
We couldn't find anything of him, and I went up and telegraphed for his folks to
come immediately.
Q. Had they gotten the dead all out before you left? A. No, sir.
Q. What time did you leave that day? A. Probably 10 or 11 o'clock in the
forenoon. We went back to Chatsworth.
Q. Did you do anything at Chatsworth? A. Nothing only going around helping my
friends. They refused to let a good many in where the wounded were.
Q. Why wouldn't they let you in? A. On account of the crowd, but I finally got
in.
By Commissioner Marsh—Q. Did you see any evidences of robbery? A. No, sir, only
I saw some of them had their pockets turned wrong side out.
Q. Some of the dead? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you first went out of the car did you see anybody down on the ground? A.
I was the first one out of our car, and I saw no one except some parties coming
around the train.
Q. Do you know who they were? A. No, sir.
Q. What were they doing? A. Looked like they were going to the fire.
Q. You didn't see anybody come out of the corn fields? A. No, sir.
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Updated September 8, 2005